Season 3, Episode 80 - Listener Questions

We are answering your questions!  When our inbox fills with numerous questions on a particular topic from listeners, we know it's time for a dedicated podcast episode addressing those questions.  However, not every query requires a full episode but each deserves an insightful answer. In this special installment, we've compiled questions from you—our listeners via email and social media—and provided answers that we hope will resonate with many.

In this episode, we cover:

• Building strong bonds despite time and distance challenges.
• Navigating generational expectations and enhancing communication skills.
• Establishing healthy boundaries during divorce to support children without overstepping.
• Exploring how motivational interviewing techniques can empower adult children facing their own challenges.
• Addressing sibling estrangement and more.

We conclude with heartfelt discussions and actionable advice aimed at fostering stronger, healthier family relationships.

Special thanks to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer. Share your thoughts with us at biteyourtongue@gmail.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram.

Support Our Podcast: You can support us with a donation as small as $5—equivalent to buying us a "virtual" cup of coffee. Consider joining our squad with an annual membership starting at just $5 per month.

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Chapters

• 0:05 Building Healthy Relationships With Adult Children
• 7:46 Navigating Parent-Child Relationships Through Distance
• 14:01 Navigating Boundaries in Adult Children's Relationships
• 19:49 [Ad] Modem Futura
• 20:34 (Cont.) Navigating Boundaries in Adult Children's Relationships
• 25:46 Navigating Sibling Estrangement in Adulthood
• 33:26 Navigating Parenting Adult Children
• 40:24 Supporting Adult Children Through Challenges
• 50:15 Navigating Generational Expectations in Parenting
• 56:02 Taking Control in Family Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

The kid might approach you and have that talk with you and you have to be as the parent. Even you might be thinking I did everything for you, kid, why are you complaining? You, as the parent, have to be able to stop and say to yourself they need to go through this and I need to take ownership for my part of whatever happened when we were kids Didn't handle the divorce very well, had an affair, whatever it is. You have to take ownership of that and that will help heal a lot of this.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Hello everyone. Welcome to Bite your Tongue the podcast. I'm Denise.

Speaker 3: 0:41

And I'm Kirsten, and we hope you will join us as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Together. We'll speak with experts, share heartfelt stories and get timely advice addressing topics that matter most to you.

Speaker 3: 0:56

Get ready to dive deep and learn to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children and, of course, when, to bite our tongues. So let's get started.

Speaker 2: 1:07

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Bite your Tongue, the podcast. I'm Denise and I'm here with my co-host, kirsten Heckendorf. This, listeners, is our last episode of season three and we promised you we'd take all the questions we've been getting for the last few months and have an entire episode filled with questions and professional answers.

Speaker 3: 1:28

So here we go For this episode. We are bringing back listeners favorite Tess Brigham. She's a licensed psychotherapist, certified coach, tedx speaker, mom to Gen Zer, podcast host, author of True you a step-by-step guide to conquering your quarter life crisis, and creator of the True you coaching course series. In a recent article from CNBC, tess says over a decade ago, when I first became a therapist, I never expected that five years later, my practice would consist of nearly 90% millennials, with the rest of my patients being the parents of millennials. So she's got both sides of the story for us. Tess has been featured in major media throughout the US, from the New York Times to O Magazine, and we are so excited to have her with us today. So welcome, tess. And is there anything else you would like to share before we get started?

Speaker 1: 2:25

No, that's plenty about me Thank you so much for having me back. I'm thrilled and I'm very excited. Well, we're thrilled to have you All right.

Speaker 2: 2:34

here we go, guys. Kirsten and I will read the questions when they were emailed to us and otherwise we'll press. So you can literally hear one of the listeners ask the question. I'm going to start with the first one, tess, and our listener wrote my youngest adult child is 48 and I do have grandchildren. My husband passed away two years ago and I've worked really hard at the grief process, but I feel very lonely. I feel that I don't have the same relationship with my children that I had earlier, especially special times during the year, such as Christmas, easter and Thanksgiving. Often they just go their own way and don't think of me. When my father died, my siblings and I made sure he was taken care of on those special days. I was just wondering if this issue has ever been addressed. And also, are the children today just like this, and should I accept it? And also, are the children today just like this and should I accept it?

Speaker 1: 3:27

So I have many thoughts. Just to answer the last part, first that it's a couple different things. Some of it is that the world is so different now and the expectations of how what we do for our parents has changed. You know, our society in general has changed in that idea and at the same time there is also this universal place of we tend to not think about where somebody else is in their life when we're asking things of them. So this I hear all the time with and I don't know this woman's particular situation with the kids, like who's working, who's not working. But I hear all the time with and I don't know that her this woman's particular situation with the kids, like who's working, who's not working. But I hear this when older adults, they feel unheard and upset because they feel like their kids don't have time for them. And I think a lot of times it's really about both sides stopping for a moment and thinking about the other person and what the other person might need.

Speaker 1: 4:23

A lot of times parents may think, oh, my kid's not thinking about me at all, they don't have time for me, they don't care about me, and that might not be the case. The case might be that they truly, truly don't have any time. They don't have any time. The idea of having one more phone call that day after a huge, long day of dealing with people and then dealing with their kids, and you finally get your kid to bed. Yeah, so it's. You know, not everyone wants to pick up the phone and call their parents. But then what happens is is that each day these times it gets to be more and more upsetting and overwhelming for the parent because they feel so ignored, while the kid is thinking nothing of it, like, oh, but I think about my mom and dad all the time. I think about them. It's not such a big deal. So the first part of it is really about and I'm going to say this a lot today which is about taking a step back and asking yourself the question of okay, so what's within my control? Like, what's my part in all of this? So to this woman I'm with you.

Speaker 1: 5:23

I think you should have a place to go for these holidays, that it would be nice in an ideal world if your kids were absolutely thinking about you and thinking about you in that way. Why they're not thinking about you in that way, I wouldn't analyze that so much. I think that's where people get stuck and what you really need to be doing is saying, hi, I have no plans for Easter. What are you all doing? I would like to come? Or who's hosting? I'll do Christmas this year, but you can do Christmas next year.

Speaker 1: 5:55

Just being direct, like really just telling your kids this is what I need from you. This is what's happening right now, and then also being able to take in what your kids are saying to you too, of you know what. It's a lot for us to try to drive here and do this. This is why we're not reaching out and understanding that and then figuring out okay, what can I do to make that easier for them? So much of this is you're talking about. Most of these kids, I would assume from these parents, are those sandwich kids, and I'm one of those sandwich kids myself. I have a 16-year-old at home and I have two 80-year-old parents and the thing is is that I love and adore my mom. I'm sure she wants me to call her more. It's not that I don't call her because I don't care. It's simply because I just don't have the time or bandwidth and I don't have the. I just don't have as much time as she does to think about these things, so I'm not thinking about them so much.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Can I ask a question to add to this? I love what you said about think about what would make it easier for them. I think one thing that sometimes we don't realize is that our kids, particularly if they're married, are managing two sides of the in-laws. Do you know what I mean? They can't always be with you. So possibly a call that says I don't know what you're doing at Easter? I know you might be going to your husband's house, your wife's house, but I'd love to see you. Maybe we can have our own Easter at my house a week before. You can figure out ways, I think, to work around this. But I loved what you said. We do have to make their life easier. They're the ones with the young kids, they're the ones with the jobs, they're the ones that are managing this young part of life. Maybe you start with that question yeah, I do feel left out, but I don't want this to be difficult for you and then order Chinese food and binge a good movie.

Speaker 1: 7:45

Yes, exactly, and it doesn't have to be. I think a lot of times we get stuck in the traditions of our childhood and this is what we did in our family.

Speaker 1: 7:50

Like what this caller was saying was that in my family we made sure mom did this and again, that was your family, that this is your building and your children are building their own families. So it's about you figuring out. Okay, maybe they won't physically be here on Easter Sunday, but how do I have a thing that happens at my house every year two weeks after Easter when things have died down a little?

Speaker 2: 8:13

bit Right. Yeah, all right, let's get to. We're going to play our next message.

Speaker 5: 8:20

Hi there, I love your podcast. I have a little situation I could use some advice on. I am separated by my kids and beloved grandkids not only by an ocean but several time zones, and I find myself feeling very disconnected. I try hard to stay in touch without being too intrusive, and I'm lucky that they do visit every summer for a week or two. My daughter tells me this is way more than what her friends are able to do, so I'm grateful, but again I want more. I don't want to be intrusive, but I'm not sure quite how to handle it. Any thoughts?

Speaker 2: 9:00

So go ahead, Tess.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Yeah, another really hard one, especially if they're living in another country. An ocean is dividing us, and so it isn't as simple. Again, I think that it comes back to you thinking about well, what is it that I want? What kind of relationship do I want to have with my children, with my child, especially since they live in a foreign country? What does this look like to me? And I think that a lot of times, people attach the belief that visiting is sort of the only way that you can stay connected to people and is the only way right. So, instead of focusing so much on the amount of days that you're spending together, and again, if you'd like to spend more time with your kids, if you'd like more of that, then, just like I was saying in the last question, a lot of it is about, okay, telling them I'd like to see you more, or if you can't come here, that's not feasible what needs to happen for me to go there?

Speaker 1: 9:58

The other part of it, too, is how do you stay connected, finding other ways to stay connected. It's as simple as asking your kid hey, I know we can't see each other physically every day or all the time. How can we stay more connected. Does this mean that we play words with friends? Does this mean and we message each other back and forth? Does this mean that, especially with your grandkids? If you feel very disconnected with them, what are they into? What are they interested in? What's something that I can share with them? Maybe it's playing a game With technology and everything. You can do a lot of those things, Even if you're someone who's like technology. I don't really want to do any of those things that writing letters, even just writing notes to especially your grandkids, that they can save and have, or sending them special things, or sending them things that are meaningful and important to you. Really, we build relationships through time and through investment.

Speaker 1: 10:54

I would try to push yourself to think beyond physically being in the same room and figuring out how do we stay connected. There are some people that see their parents all the time and call them constantly, and then there's other people that barely talk to their parents Like that. You're always going to get a variety of that. I would just keep all that noise outside of your head. Don't worry about that and really focus on first what do you want, what makes sense to you, and then what does that look like? How do I translate that? And again, your kids, I'm sure, are really, really busy, so you want to find things that aren't going to require more work for them. When you said something meaningful.

Speaker 2: 11:28

I love what you said. So, really, grandma could send a scarf yes, this is one of my favorite scarves, right and she could say I can't be with you all the time, but here's something that, when you see it, you can think of me, because I've used to wear this. When you say a meaningful thing to send, it doesn't have to be a new toy from the store or something. It can be a tchotchke that she has at home that's meaningful to her or him. If it's a grandfather, is that?

Speaker 1: 11:52

what you're saying? Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't have to be always sending them money or sending them those kinds of things. It could be something that you have writing stories, I mean depending on the age of your kid. There's right at when we're kids, we want to know different things about our parents, depending, again, it's the age of the child.

Speaker 1: 12:09

But telling them funny stories about their parents or telling them about themselves or where I was in my life at this time, sometimes it could be just as simple as texting someone thinking of you. No need to reach back out thinking of you, because we do take in all these things. We've all been that person where we did not have the time or energy or bandwidth to invest in that other person, but that person stayed invested in us. Even though you may not be hearing from them, they appreciate it, they do. You just aren't going to get that validation or feedback right away. It's parenting. Parenting means you never, ever, get any kind of thank you appreciation right in the moment. 40 years later, you might get a thank you, but in the moment, never.

Speaker 2: 12:51

You don't want to make them feel guilty, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:55

Yeah, that's a big one. Is the guilt and being mindful of how are you phrasing things? Like I never hear from you, or as opposed to something like hey, thinking of you when you have a moment, love to hear from you, if not just thinking of you, right? No pressure, no guilt, and that's what people respond to. They will call you.

Speaker 3: 13:18

I think you're right. This next question did come in as an audio message, but we thought we would read it to make sure it was very clear for everybody. How do you handle your relationships with your adult children when you are going through a divorce? And how about when your young adult child goes through divorce? How do you handle your relationship with your daughter or son-in-law? You're feeling as a failure, providing support to them, and then, of course, the grandchildren Okay, feeling as a failure, providing support to them.

Speaker 1: 13:45

And then, of course, the grandchildren. Okay, so if you yourself, as the parent, are going through a divorce, I would treat it the same way you would treat if your kids were 10, 11, 12. Obviously, you're going to use different language and obviously it's going to impact them differently. The biggest one, and the mistake that I see a lot of parents make, is they see their kids. They're adults and then they start treating them like an adult friend who you would go to and talk about the divorce constantly, and I've seen a lot of parents do this. They don't necessarily mean to, but it happens. They see their kids. They're like oh, they're an adult, they can handle all these things. They can hear about how dad had an affair, or they can hear about this, or they can hear about that.

Speaker 1: 14:26

My recommendation would be you want to be open and honest with your kids. You want your kids to understand what's going on Nothing to do with you, we're still in your life, right? Even though that may seem a little weird to say to a 30-year-old but you want to maintain that same position of not putting your kids in the middle, not criticizing the other parent. Those same ideas, those same things that are talked about when people get divorced, when their kids are little. Exact same for adults. Exact same. The language might be different, but if you need to talk to someone about the divorce, you need to go to a therapist. Talk to a friend. Your kids are not your friends, they're just not.

Speaker 1: 15:06

And so the flip side of it is, if your child is getting a divorce, I would not say anything. I would really be there, as how can I help you? How can I help you? What help do you need from me? How can I pick up some slack? How can I help you with these things? The son-in-law, daughter-in-law they're going to be in your life for the rest of your life too, because you have grandkids. So again, what do you need from me? How can you help? You're not taking sides, you're not getting involved.

Speaker 1: 15:37

If your child wants to sit down and talk to you for a while, I would talk to them and take it in and be a sounding board and then, if they're kind of pressing you wanting help, advice, I would recommend you know what I really recommend you go talk to someone, see a therapist, and maybe your way of helping is researching. Hey, these are three coaches that I found in our area that specialize in divorce. So here you go. I'm happy to pay for the first 10 sessions, or five sessions or whatever it is Like. How can you be of service? You want to stay in your role as a parent, to be there to support, to help, but you're not the therapist. You don't want to get involved. There's going to be nothing good is going to come of you getting involved in your child's marriage. Sounds perfect.

Speaker 3: 16:22

The other thing that makes it difficult, I think, is that as your kids get older, they also have opinions. Let's say, if I were divorcing from my husband, I know my kids are going to have comments about it, and so the not responding to that is very difficult, whether they're agreeing with me or they're not. To not have that conversation when it's right in front of you is learning how to say this is not something for you and I to talk about. If you're struggling with this, I can make some suggestions on some people you might want to talk to.

Speaker 2: 16:55

Yeah, yeah, absolutely Okay. So I'm going to read the next one. This message actually just came in yesterday. A listener wrote that her adult son, who is 33, is in a very unhealthy marriage for the last two years. Things are so bad that he sometimes does retreat and come to her house. He's printed up divorce papers and wants to move forward, but every time he gets ready to do it he gets sucked back in and feels badly. She thinks he's too kind and is being taken advantage of. I'm constantly worried about him, she says, but he does not want to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 17:32

So none of these are softballs at all. Not one of these questions I would really start with. It's always hard when you don't have all the context, because I would want to know. The follow-up question would be is it really upsetting to her each time he comes home? Does it disrupt her life? Is it like I stop my whole life? He comes in, I become his therapist for two weeks and then the cycle continues, because that's a different frustration.

Speaker 1: 17:59

Again, you don't want to get involved in your child's relationship. It's not your place to say don't want to get involved in your child's relationship. It's not your place to say but if he is coming into your home often, like several times a year, and disrupting your life and disrupting everything and sort of, you know you're doing all these things for him, or going out of your way and researching things and doing things, and then he's falling right back in, you do have the right to say to your child hey, I know you're going through a lot I can't imagine, but I can't have you as a guest each time. And or, if you the next time he wants to come back, hey, I need to set some boundaries with you about how long you're going to stay, or what I'm going to do for you, or what this looks like, what the expectations are, because in some ways whether she doesn't mean to be, but by her sort of opening up her house every time, she's kind of enabling this behavior to keep coming and coming, like I do wonder if he didn't have mom to go home to and chill out to, would he make a different choice? And that's kind of what you want to push him on. It's like what would happen if you had to make a different choice in all of these things.

Speaker 1: 19:05

The other thing I would say is, yes, you don't want to be his therapist, but you could have some what they call motivational interviewing questions. It's used a lot in drug and alcohol treatment, which is you're not telling someone like you should stop drinking. It's asking questions around. Well, what would it look like for you if you got sober? What's your greatest fear? What's your resistance?

Speaker 1: 19:28

I may be starting to ask him questions, like I've noticed a pattern. What would it be like for you if you didn't return? What would that be like? Just sort of maybe getting him a little bit to ask himself these questions, but if he keeps showing up at your house, keeps disturbing your life, keeps asking and demanding a lot of you and then turns around and continues to do the behavior. You can't change that. All you can do is take yourself out of the equation, and you can do that in a very kind and loving way. It doesn't mean you say he can't stay with you, just like when kids return home. You don't want to make it too comfortable for them, you just don't. And it sounds like this has become a comfortable pattern.

Speaker 2: 20:49

I just wonder about this. Can you offer it? Say you keep moving to filing for divorce, but you seem to stop. If you do that and you'd like to stay here for a bit until you get yourself settled, I'm happy for you to come when that happens. But this back and forth is not going to work. Can? You offer a safe place when he does file. Is that okay?

Speaker 1: 21:10

Yeah, oh yeah. That's beautiful. That is one way of saying it. You've seen two of this has happened several times and you can say I can't be your stopping ground for this, but if you need a stable place once you file for your, for you and the kids, yes, I think so much of this is about. How is this impacting you? What needs to change for you? The worried part, I mean that is parenting. I don't know what else to say. I say this to my young adult clients all the time your parents are just going to worry in one, they're just going to worry. That's just how it is. For her, I would say how do you focus on worrying? You're going to worry, but how do you then manage your anxiety? How do you manage that stress? Because that's a whole nother topic.

Speaker 1: 21:52

You can't take in all the stress for your son. Yeah, and yet we do.

Speaker 6: 21:56

Yes, my son and his wife have three children, with a fourth on the way. We don't see them very often. They never come to visit and we live about an hour and a half away. My daughter-in-law is angry because she had postpartum with her second. I tried to go up and babysit the children. As I quote my son, we need to have a relationship with them before we can have a relationship with our grandchildren. I am just so distraught over what's going on. I call. They don't answer. I text her she doesn't respond, or it takes days to respond.

Speaker 1: 22:43

Okay. So there are some sections of this that I believe have been left out, so I'm just going to infer a few things. It sounds like that there's some kind of disconnect between mom and daughter-in-law. At first. Maybe it's about you having a conversation with your son and saying okay, I want to be of help, I want to be of service. We are so close to you, we're only an hour away. What do I need to do? What is it that's needed? What needs to happen?

Speaker 1: 23:28

And hey, it may be that you might be having to sit down and apologize to your daughter-in-law, something might have happened, I don't know. But I would really urge you to figure out. What do you need from me in order for us to move forward, because I want to have a good relationship with both of you and with my grandchildren. The thing is, she doesn't have to like her daughter-in-law, they don't have to get along, they don't have to even spend any time together. It's really about figuring out and either from your son or from your daughter-in-law what's the help and support that they need from you, what needs to happen in order for you to see the grandchildren more and then again, just like what I said, with the person that's got the child out of the country. I know it's an hour and a half and that might it just might be that it's a lot with three kids and one on the way for your, for them to just have anybody over at their house or to have any. You know any of that. Maybe it's about texting the grandkids or letting them know here how can I help you. Or here's the scarf you can still do all of these things even though you're an hour and a half away.

Speaker 1: 24:39

Again, we keep thinking that visiting and physically being in the same room is the end-all, be-all of a relationship and it's not. And right now, especially with it sounds like these kids are all really small. That's hard. Also, trust that at some point these kids are going really small. That's hard. Also, trust that at some point these kids are going to become school age and it will get a lot easier for them. They might be coming to your house more often, but right now, with the kids, the age they are, it's just some of it's just recognizing that. This is the extent of the relationship. I think that's that's good advice.

Speaker 3: 25:09

They also eventually too. Things like hey, so-and-so is playing soccer on Saturday. You want to come up, because that way they're not going directly to the house. There's no entertaining that needs to happen in the house with the little kids, so come to the soccer field or the park or whatever kind of other activities. Yeah, that's good too.

Speaker 2: 25:30

It seems like a lot of these questions have a little bit of a theme, but go ahead, yes they do. Exactly.

Speaker 1: 25:35

All these questions have a theme. I will tell you they do.

Speaker 3: 25:37

Here's another one. So the question is I know that there are boomers with millennial children who are being ignored and not allowed to see the grandkids. How are others handling this situation?

Speaker 2: 25:50

That sounds maybe a bit more of estrangement.

Speaker 1: 25:52

Yeah, it goes back to, you know, when I was mentioning in the beginning of the show about how things have changed a lot. Once upon a time in our society, it was about family obligation and take care of your parents, and this is the requirement. And our society is really ebbed and flowed and moved and a lot of different directions where people are focusing a lot more on what's going to make me happy. I think that it's funny because the boomers kind of started a lot of this. The boomers wanted more of that happiness, right. And millennials they're right there too, about this idea of spending time and energy. And how much time and energy do you put towards these kinds of relationships? So, with this particular case, there's two big reasons that I hear why kids and parents are disconnected. The first one is all the things that we've been talking about time, different stage of your life, the difficulty of things of just not having the bandwidth. The other one is and again, I don't know the full story, but there are a lot of kids that feel like I didn't get my needs met and I didn't get my needs met, or I feel like there were things that were hurtful and they're pulling back a little bit. That's one of those cases where, again, as the parent, your kid is going through stages. Right, they work with a lot of 20-somethings. I do know that in your 20s you're spending a lot of time trying to figure a lot of stuff out about yourself and stuff that happened with your parents and maybe if they got divorced, if there was a step-parent, if there was an issue with something this is when they finally have adult brains to really understand it.

Speaker 1: 27:30

So there might be that level of a bit of an estrangement because they're processing or trying to figure out how they feel about you. They're not necessarily angry, they're not going to push you away necessarily, but right now, for whatever reason, they feel like they need to have more time to themselves. So you, as the parent, you want to make interacting with you easy, pleasant, simple and no guilt. So think about how am I interacting with my kids If it's an estrangement issue and you're being pushed out completely? That's a huge, huge topic and that's one where you do need to absolutely speak to someone, read a book. That's a whole other ball of wax If this is one where you just feel like I used to be really close to my kid and I'm not so close anymore.

Speaker 1: 28:16

Again, it's thinking through a little bit about, okay, where are they at in their lives, what's been going on, what might be happening, and then, okay, I'm going to empathize with them and see them where they're at, then going back to them and just saying, hey, I know you may be going through a lot, or I'm here whenever you're ready to talk. All you can do is be open for it and your kid might listen. Your kid might approach you and have that talk with you and you have to be as the parent. Even you might be thinking I did everything for you, kid, why are you complaining? You, as the parent, have to be able to stop and say to yourself they need to go through this and I need to take ownership, for my part, of whatever happened when we were kids, didn't handle the divorce very well, had an affair, whatever it is. You have to take ownership of that and that will help heal a lot of this.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Take the high road is what you're saying.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Yes, even if you may not get back what you want from your kids and you may not feel like I need to take all the brunt, like they're blaming me. Dad and I got divorced and now you're all coming to me and blaming me. But your kids coming to you because they feel safe enough to come to you. That's also big too. Kids. They're hardest on their moms and they're hardest on their moms when they feel safe with mom because they know mom will take it and you know keep loving them. So that's part of this unconditional which is to keep showing up and say okay, you're mad at me and I still love you.

Speaker 3: 29:34

It's hard, yeah, very hard, because we get this estrangement kind of concept often. I'm curious if in your practice you're seeing more of it now than maybe when you first were practicing.

Speaker 1: 29:51

I don't know, I don't see. I don't necessarily see more of it. I know some people that do specialize in this area, so it's not a specialty of mine. I mean they might have a better idea. I don't, honestly. If anything I mean that's one change that's happened is, is kids like their parents a lot more these days. Millennials and Gen Zs like their parents. That's good to hear.

Speaker 1: 30:10

I want to spend more time with their parents than from what I've heard from people my age and baby boomers, because most baby boomers will tell you right, they felt all those obligations, they felt that pressure, they felt the guilt and didn't like it. Baby boomers really reacted to that and they raised their children differently. And Gen Xers, we raise our children differently and so the relationships I do think are much tighter. The estrangement thing that is just so hard. I've worked with a parent or two who've gone through it. It's horribly, horribly painful.

Speaker 2: 30:41

Okay, we're going to play this next one.

Speaker 4: 30:46

Hi there, I have two wonderfully amazing daughters who were always best friends when they were growing up, but now one won't even speak to the other. It breaks my heart as their mother. I think it all comes from a root of jealousy, one more jealous than the other. Is there anything I can do?

Speaker 1: 31:08

Well, this is all going to sound very familiar, but no, there's not much you can do. You cannot force your daughters to be friends again. You can't. And one thing is is that, just like your children, when they were younger, went through ups and downs in their sisterly relationship, I too have a sister, so I know this one well.

Speaker 1: 31:32

This may not be what it is for the rest of your life, that right now, for whatever reason, where your two daughters are right now, they're struggling to have a relationship for whatever reasons. So the first one is not to get stuck in this place of this is how it's going to be for the rest of our lives. Separate Christmases, separate this, separate that. This is where they're at, and so you just kind of have to deal with each event as it comes just for a little while and trust that there will be the hope is there will be some sort of resolution in the future. I actually read this stat that, apparently, that when siblings become estranged and when they stop spending time with each other as adults, that usually it's opposite sex, that usually it's female, male opposite sex, that of all, the pairings of siblings that have the closest relationship and have the closest relationship through a lifetime are sisters. Hopefully that gives you a sense of hope. I don't know how old they are, but I do believe that at some point there is going to be something that's going to change that.

Speaker 1: 32:34

Now you can't force that along. All you can do is be the person who says I love you both equally. I can't get involved, that's not my place to do that, and then all you need to do is say okay, we're having a family gathering, you're both invited, I'll see you both there. And if one of you decides not to come, okay, I'm not going to not uninvite anybody. I mean, I think you have to say from the beginning like, you're both invited to everything, I'm not going to be there to talk about the other one with you. If you need to talk to someone, it can't be me. And again, just set those boundaries really clear and then that's it. It's heartbreaking, and the less you interfere, actually, I do think that they will have a bit of an easier time of coming back together. I think that's absolutely true.

Speaker 3: 33:19

So the next question is from a listener who said it would be interesting to hear from others on how to navigate the intersection of the adult child losing a parent, as well as how the remaining parent can manage now being the only parent. Any thoughts?

Speaker 1: 33:43

Yeah, it's definitely a transitional time for the entire family, having that awareness that this is a transition, that everyone now is learning to play a new role in the family and that no one's going to do it very well and there's going to be a lot of ups and downs, just the recognition that you're both grieving. When it comes to grief, there is no, there's no solution to it. There's no top five techniques. It's time and it's the processing of time, allowing yourself to go through the stages of grief, feel all the feels. So the best thing that you can do is just be really, really sensitive to the fact that my child is grieving the loss of a parent and just as the child needs to be aware of my parent is grieving the loss of a partner. And just come at things from that perspective. Just trust that. You know you'll all get out through this and it'll be different, but you'll get through it. You just have to be supportive of each other.

Speaker 2: 34:35

It's positive that there was so much love that they're both grieving. Whatever parent died had a positive impact. Okay, let's move to the next one. This is one we're all hearing about lately. I have different political views than my three adult children. I make a point really not to discuss politics, but they keep bringing it up, trying to convince me that my views adult children. I make a point really not to discuss politics, but they keep bringing it up trying to convince me that my views are wrong.

Speaker 1: 34:58

What can I do? I think that one is just setting a very firm boundary, especially if this is your home, if they're coming to your home, you can set the boundary of hey, we don't talk politics, we don't do that. And in my house I'd like to put that off the table. If you're in your kid's house and it's their home, and it's their party and it's their thing, then you might need to take a step back. But one is just setting a boundary and telling them that you hear them and you've heard their side, okay, you don't think you're going to change. And after that, if they keep going, you can just walk out of the room, be like, okay, bye. Well, you know, if you want to talk about politics, I'm not going to be in the room with you, just physically remove yourself every time it comes on. But you have to. This is the thing with these boundaries. You have to be consistent with it, because what will happen is is that you will set the boundary of hey, no politics.

Speaker 1: 35:46

And then, sure enough, something will come on the news and then so-and-so will start talking, and then a debate will happen and from there you have to say, hey, I had this conversation with you. I don't want to talk about these things. I'm going to turn off the news. Let's focus on something else. Here's a new topic. Here we go right.

Speaker 1: 36:02

So you have to keep reinforcing these things because they will continue to bring it up and bring it up, and bring it up until they realize, oh, mom is going to leave the room or dad's going to leave the room. Every single time we bring it up. So we don't want them to leave the room, so we'll stop talking about it, and then maybe some of it is. They just need to hear that, like I hear you, I get your points. I see your points. I see your point of view. I get your points. We're never going to agree on this. I just see it differently and let that go. Sometimes people just need to tell you what they think and then you, okay, got it and you just move forward. I think that's great.

Speaker 2: 36:35

I think one thing to add and we sort of talked about this in a number episode about leaving the room, leaving the room calmly, not stomping out and busy yourself in the kitchen, or whatever it might be. Yeah, I think I wouldn't have come up with that. Okay, kirsten, you're on.

Speaker 3: 36:53

Okay, kirsten, you're on. Okay, how do you give loving advice to an adult child who's experimenting with marijuana and other drugs without breaking ties with them?

Speaker 1: 36:59

Yeah, you know, like all of these, like all of these other things telling your kid I don't like the fact that you're experimenting with drugs, or I'm worried about you, or I'm scared there may be not a teenager anymore, but it's going to land around the same place. So I would a couple of different things. You either can say to them something to the effect of I respect that you're an adult and that you make your own choices. I just want to let you know that when I hear about these things, I feel scared, I feel worried, and these are the reasons why I'm scared or worried. You can offer things to them if you feel like hey, you know, please, if you ever are high and thinking about getting into a car, can you please call me, kind of like what you would do with a teenager. Could you call me? Could you I'm happy to come and pick you up if you're still driving, you know be of service to them, knowing that you cannot change their behavior or stop the behavior.

Speaker 1: 37:56

How do you mitigate some of the things that could possibly happen? But the other one too, is you can do a bit of that motivational interviewing of I'm kind of curious. It seems like you're getting high a lot. Are you feeling? Are you feeling more anxious these days? You know what's what's happening with you and huh, and as opposed to, I think when we talk about drugs and alcohol, the biggest thing is that people just don't want to be lectured at, people don't want to be told, people don't want it because they feel judged. And your kid doesn't want to feel judged so either.

Speaker 1: 38:26

If you are so opposed to drugs and alcohol, you're like this is terrible, then you have the right to feel that way and you can say to your kid I have a very different view than you do, I do not want to hear about it and you cannot be high in my home. If you come and visit me or if you start to use drugs, then I'm going to leave. I'm going to leave as well. You can set those boundaries for yourself. If you're. If, if for you it's more of huh, they're experimenting, then same thing that I would do when they were a teenager Just ask some questions about what's going on. Why now? Because that is very odd, right? You don't hear of a lot of 20, 30, 40-somethings starting to experiment.

Speaker 2: 39:06

Well, it might be because it's just become legal. They didn't do it when they were younger, and then they get hooked on it. It might be alcohol too, who knows. But I think, as it's been legalized in so many different places, more people are trying it. Maybe they like it, but I think it does scare a lot of parents when they see it overused.

Speaker 3: 39:23

Well, and I think in the 30s and 40s well, 20s as well you're seeing more people experimenting with the psychedelics there's been a lot of talk about that, a lot of books coming out about it, so a lot depends on what kind of drug she's talking about. But I love the idea of saying I'm concerned, this is not what we did and I just I don't understand it. Can you help me understand why you're experimenting with whatever it is?

Speaker 1: 39:55

Yeah, because I'm out here in California, the legalization of marijuana, it's been huge. I used to be one of those people that was firmly like legalize all drugs and now I'm like, oh, I don't know, I get that. As a parent and as an adult, I see it. It is very, very scary. There are a lot more people than you think that are smoking weed all day, every day, a lot more. I think you have to come at the conversation from this very from an open place of here. This is what I'm reading and this is what I'm seeing. This is what concerns me. You know what's your experience been like?

Speaker 2: 40:37

I guess it's also. Are they holding a job? What their life like? Yeah, so there's a lot of variables. Okay, let's get to the next one. It's somewhat similar, but not completely. My daughter's a heavy smoker. I feel like I'm to blame because I spoke to. I did stop. She's also very overweight. It's so hard for me to handle. Is there anything I can say to her?

Speaker 1: 40:50

No, I mean, you know, nobody ever responds well to you need to lose weight. Nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody. The best thing that you can do is you live a happy, healthy life, like, how are you living? You know you stop smoking Great. What are you eating? How are you eating?

Speaker 1: 41:08

Be a model for your kid. You've you're beating yourself up because you modeled behavior you're not happy with. Well, here's your up because you modeled behavior you're not happy with. Well, here's your opportunity to start modeling behavior you'd like to see. So start modeling that behavior. Work on yourself, work on your own health, all of that stuff. Make sure that when she comes over, there's healthy things to have. Listen, if she reaches for the ice cream, you've got to let it go. It's her life. But for the most part, like. Model those things and also create an environment in which we don't smoke. In my home there's no smoking here. If you want to smoke, you have to go out there. Model the health that you want to see in her and, trust me, at the very least you will feel better because you will be eating better, feeling better and it will help your anxiety tremendously as well.

Speaker 2: 41:54

Absolutely. That's a hard one to see your child going down an unhealthy route. It's very, very hard yeah.

Speaker 3: 41:59

Okay, kirsten, one of my children, is in her early 20s and deeply stuck. She's finished high school during the first COVID-19 lockdown, has then had a short stint at living alone and studying, aborted after one and a half semesters because it was not for her. She tried to become an apprentice in a trade which she thought she may like, sent a single application, was interviewed, denied, and has since given up on doing anything at all. We tried getting her into therapy for her depression and anxiety and she has had a few sessions, but she's rejected everything and everything.

Speaker 3: 42:33

When talking with outsiders she's radically different, very quiet and a victim of circumstances in everything. She's clearly intelligent. She's radically different, very quiet and a victim of circumstances in everything. She's clearly intelligent, has great rhetoric skills and is very good at blame shifting, which I am sure she really believes in. My wife and myself have had family counseling specifically on whether there's anything we can do to improve in our behavior towards her. The two of us are fine otherwise, but nothing much came from that aside from them giving us mental tools to survive.

Speaker 1: 43:04

I have to say this particular situation is, I think, the hardest, and it is really hard and it's really complicated and it's something that a lot I get a lot of parents like this, and what's really hard is that without hearing from the kid, we don't really know exactly what's going on. We've heard one side of it of what's happening, how stuck she is, what's happening, what's happening with her, that there's an inability to want to help herself and what's going on. But I think a lot of this is really dependent on whether or not you are supporting financially, emotionally, this child. If this 20-year-old is living on her own, pays her own rent, she might be in a job that she hates, but if she's paying her own rent, she's living her own life and financially you are not part of it at all and she's not asking anything of you. Then you really do have to think about ways to survive and thrive in your own life and recognize that your child's path is not going to look like how you thought it was going to look like and it's not going to look like how yours is. If you are financially supporting your kid, that's a different story, because now you're kind of in this place of and I understand that where you're, like my child's, stuck, they're not. They're not applying for jobs, they're not contributing anything and I don't want to support them for the rest of my life. So if you are financially supporting this child, then to me it feels like the next step would be you and your partner first talk about all of this. But the two of you have to put together a bit of a plan of action of what does this look like?

Speaker 1: 44:34

So coming to her and saying hey, like so coming to her and saying hey and acknowledging, while maybe for some people, this young person seems like what's wrong with them. They're so entitled, they're not working, all this kind of stuff. It's like this COVID was a lot for these kids, a lot. Nobody had it harder than Gen Z they really. And we don't know what the long-term effects are of COVID and pandemic. We don't know. None of us had been in a pandemic before. So that's the part that's really hard is she's not wrong, circumstances have made things a little bit harder and that she is struggling a bit more because of, potentially, because of what's going on. She may just be using this as an excuse. I don't know, but I do think it's important for parents to take a step back again. That empathy, piece of empathizing. What would have been like for me? What mental state would I be in? How would I see the world? How would I feel if I was her right now?

Speaker 1: 45:32

So, coming at it from that place and then having a plan of action of saying, depending on where you live and what it's like, okay, the plan is is that you're going to be financially independent and living on your own a year from now. So what does that look like? What does that mean? So that means that you need to get a job. Well, what is what do we need to do to have that happen?

Speaker 1: 45:50

Some of it's just a little bit of giving your kid some structure and saying this is the expectation that you're going to start paying us. You're going to get a job by roughly this time. You're then going to you know, do this by this time. If you're going to do this by this time, and creating a plan and maybe some of it is might saying something to the effect of, okay, if you, if you don't know what you want to do career wise or what the next job is, you have to have some kind of job because this kid could work. She could work at a coffee shop, she could work at Starbucks and Starbucks, I want to say, has really good benefits, because I work with some of those young people.

Speaker 1: 46:23

Yeah, you get free therapy. You have to work there a year but, like Starbucks, has really good, good benefits. I think that she needs to work, she needs to do something, but there needs to be parameters in place for her to create some structure for that, and it sounds like she maybe isn't right for therapy right now. It sounds like she needs coaching. She needs someone to kind of sit down with her and help her think through some of these things, because she does feel discouraged because job hunting sucks. It's so hard.

Speaker 1: 46:54

I talked to my 40-year-old clients that are looking for jobs and it's hard with all the experience and knowledge in the world. So here you are and you feel like, oh, I wanted to do this one thing and it didn't turn out. And and I understand as an adult we're sitting there going, okay, we'll find something else. But at the same time, if you're young, it's hard. That that the it sounds like she needs to really work on building her confidence and her sense of getting used to rejection and those things are things that you can work on with a coach. And maybe it's saying, hey, we're going to pay for you to work with a coach for three months and then in three months after that. We're expecting this. There can be flexibility with the plan, but just create some parameters and then it's on her to figure out how she's going to do that.

Speaker 2: 47:44

And if she doesn't, I just always wonder about the situation. You get really stuck. The kid says, no, I'm not doing any of this. Some people believe in the tough love Well, goodbye. Others don't. So much depends on the kid in the situation, I guess. I just don't know what I would do.

Speaker 1: 47:51

Yeah, and that's the other part of it too. It's such a case-by-case basis because it is your kid and you know your kid, I mean.

Speaker 1: 47:57

I know for my son, negative reinforcement never worked. It's never have, never will. It does not work. And so over the years I've kind of figured out that he needs the positive reinforcement, but there needs to be some parameters and some around that of what the expectation is. So you are setting expectations for your kid. I do think you can find something in between. Your kid does not have to live with you forever, nor do you have to kick them off into the street. I believe in the warning. You have a year. That's a long time, Like six months.

Speaker 1: 48:28

You could say six months, three months, whatever the time frame is. Again, it really depends on where you live, how expensive it is to live there, because if I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, moving out would be really hard. So maybe my expectation for my kid might be different. I need for you to get a job and you need to start paying me $300 a month in rent. This needs to happen here and by this time. This needs to happen Now.

Speaker 1: 48:51

If you see your kid pounding the pavement, applying for tons of jobs and doing everything and you've also I would also give them some chores around the house and other things, other expectations of things that they can do successfully. Getting a job's hard because you only have control over putting yourself out there and applying for the job and networking. You cannot control whether or not they hire you in the end, so you wanna give them some tasks and some things to do that they have complete control over, to sort of right. To me it feels like if your kid is applying to a bunch of jobs and not getting them, but they are doing all the chores that you're asking them to do, that keeping their room clean, they're doing all those other things. No, I don't think you should be kicking them out on the street because there's other circumstances at play.

Speaker 1: 49:35

But if you go to your kid and they're not doing anything they just kind of spat in your face about it and taken this attitude, you have the right to say, okay, well, you have now three months. Good luck with that. It sounds harsh, but trust me. Trust me and maybe they will leave your house and they're going to go couch stuff your kid. If you are an average middle class and above parent and any class really, your kid is not going to want to live on the street. That's just end of story. It's not going to happen. They're not going to do it.

Speaker 2: 50:07

Okay, so let's get to the next one. We only have two more, so this was really written by an aunt, but I think it can involve everything. She has no adult children, but she's sometimes very judgmental about manners and when she sees her nieces and nephews, who she's very close to, and their table banners aren't good or she doesn't get thank you notes, things like that, even a text when she sends a gift. Is there anything? Is it a generational thing, or is there anything she can say or do?

Speaker 1: 50:33

I think, yeah, I think some of it's a generational thing. I think a lot of it is the busyness of life. I mean, I think some of it's the expectations, but just if we really take a step back, I mean, being a parent in the world today is rough because there is a lot more that you have to do every single day as a parent. I don't know if it's necessarily that we've become more lax. I just feel like parents today, they just don't think they have the bandwidth to sit there and enforce all of these things, these rules and regulations and thank you notes, and, trust me, I have a son and I could never get him to do thank you notes and some of these things. I'm an aunt as well, and aunts do have a lot of leverage. Usually they want to listen to their aunt. They like their aunts and uncles. Those are good people, fun people.

Speaker 1: 51:18

So I would ask myself first, why do I feel like they need to have better table manners? What's going on here? Is it so egregious that you're worried like my God? No one's ever going to hire them, or they're never going to go on a date, or you know? Is there some big issue?

Speaker 1: 51:32

If it's more you and of like I would like thank you notes, letting go of that you and of like I would like thank you notes, letting go of that, letting go of what those expectations would be. But if, for you, you feel like this is the relationship I have with my niece or nephew, I want to have this kind of relationship with them and I want to have the kind of relationship where they acknowledge my gifts then it's about going to the kid and saying, hey, this is what I would really love to see, and you model it too. You model, you thank the kid. When the kid does something, you acknowledge them. You say, hey, I saw your dance performance. I just want to tell you you were awesome.

Speaker 1: 52:09

I see all the confidence that you have and all of those things Model the behavior that you want to see. So make sure that you're doing this as well. And then again, hey, if it's the table, manners are terrible. Then figure out, like, what's your leverage? Is this someone who is getting ready to date, or are they at that place, maybe talking to them a little bit about that and what it looks like? Those kinds of things? Aunts and uncles have a lot of leverage.

Speaker 3: 52:37

Okay so we'll do the last question. The question is I would love to hear more episodes that address emerging adults that are single parents and are making choices that still require their parents' financial support. These are unique situations that involve grandchildren and mental health issues. It is easy to stop financial help when your adult child is single, but it is another question when they have children, your grandchildren, and you see them suffering as well.

Speaker 1: 53:03

How can we help but not enable Well, again, I think it's about going to your child and asking them how can I be of help? Also say if you're worried about enabling and if you want to continue to financially support your kid, but you don't want to enable them, then you can let them know. If they say to you, well, we really need money for this or we need money for that, Then you can say, okay, great, I'll tell me what the camp is and I'm going to pay directly to the camp, pay directly to those things. Every case is a little different, but you don't want to just keep handing them money and money and money. It's like you need this for school, you need this for, oh, I'll take the kids back to school shopping so you don't have to pay for any of that. I'll go and do all of those things. So be very specific about where are you going to put your money, what it is, and it's the same thing with your time. I'm willing to pick your kids up from school, but I'm not willing to do, you know, the midnight showing of Rocky Orman. You know I'm not going to drop them off. You can set some boundaries with them of what you're willing to do and not do.

Speaker 1: 54:07

To me it feels like I don't think you're going to be. If you're paying for your kids camps, you're not enabling your kids. It is a single parent I and she's an attorney so she makes a lot of money and she worked for our father, also an attorney. She had a really good setup and I saw how hard it was for her and she needed my mom and I a lot to help her go up for her. When you have a kid who's a single parent, they're just going to really need a lot of your help and you're not enabling them. You aren't Because enabling them, you aren't because truly, it's not like they're not doing anything, it's just they need help. It's just how it is. I think it just makes everything. It makes them their lives a bit easier. So I don't think that's enabling by any means.

Speaker 2: 54:51

Well, tess, thank you. That's our last question. I know this was a lot. We really appreciate it. Listeners, I hope you love this as much as we did. We always ask for two takeaways, so we've talked about a lot of things. Can you leave our listeners with two takeaways?

Speaker 1: 55:07

Okay, yeah, I mean there was definitely a common theme in all the questions. A lot of it was about control or the lack of control and wanting to control things as a parent. The moment you become a parent, your life isn't your own and you start worrying. But number one, the first takeaway, is you have to start with yourself first. This is across the board. I don't care how old your child is. You have to start with yourself first. That's why we hear about the oxygen mask on ourselves first. That's why we hear this comment all the time, because it's how people are able to survive. So your children are only as happy, healthy, as you are. So start with yourself. Focus on you. Every, all of these, every single thing that you stop.

Speaker 1: 55:48

It's like what's my role in this? What can I do for myself? How, how do I take care of myself and what's my role in this and what's within? And then that leads to my second takeaway, which is that it's asking yourself, when you get stuck, when you're in these places where you feel like yourself spinning, what's within my control? What do I have control over?

Speaker 1: 56:07

I cannot force my kid to come here and visit me at my house, but I can make it so that my house is a great place to wanna come and visit, or I can create something where they would love to come because they drop the kids off and then I book them a nice hotel down the street, right Like what's within your control. If you want more face time, what does that look like? And how do you get that from your end, versus focusing on what other people are doing or not doing and what you feel like they should be doing for you and you know it's? Yeah, we all wish people would do things differently, but they're not. So all you can do is is focus on yourself.

Speaker 2: 56:48

I love that. Tess, we really thank you for all this time, absolutely. And I'm sure we'll have you on again, because we love having you.

Speaker 2: 56:55

So thank you so much Thank you on again, because we love having you. So thank you so much. Thank you. Well, that's a wrap, guys. So Tess was back and she answered all your questions. It's really hard to answer questions without knowing all of the circumstances around it, but I think she did a darn good job. As you know, this was our last episode for season three and we're going to take a little bit of a breather between season three and season four, so there'll be to take a little bit of a breather between season three and season four, so there'll be some episode rewinds.

Speaker 3: 57:21

We've picked some episodes that we really think are worth having a second listen to, so we hope you'll join us during our little breather and thank you, as always, to Connie Gorn Fisher, our audio engineer, who makes us look and sound fabulous, and also you can follow us at the website biteyourtonguepodcastcom. You can email us at biteyourtonguepodcast at gmailcom.

Speaker 2: 57:46

Send us ideas because we're working on the fourth season, so let us know what you want to hear about. Send us your questions and remember, sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.