Supporting Millennial Independence: Tess Brigham on Guiding, Not Enabling

Ever wondered how to better support your millennial children without overstepping? Tess Brigham, renowned as the "millennial therapist," joins us to share her unique journey from the glitz of Hollywood to the fulfilling world of psychotherapy. Discover her expert insights into fostering independence in young adults by encouraging them to solve their own problems, rather than simply handing them solutions. Tess's approach is all about guiding questions that empower young people to navigate their own challenges confidently.

Tess helps us unearth the pressures millennials face today, from social media comparisons to the looming "30 under 30" lists. We discuss the anxiety that accompanies unmet milestones and the fear of future failure, drawing intriguing parallels to the concerns faced by people in their sixties. Learn how to build trust in oneself through life transitions and the essential role parents play in this process, all while avoiding the trap of enabling. Tess sheds light on the evolving attitudes toward mental health among younger generations and the impact of technology on their work-life boundaries.

Get ready for practical, heartfelt advice on how to provide emotional support to your adult children. Tess emphasizes the power of supportive texts and acknowledging efforts in boosting confidence and happiness. We tackle the complexities of work-life balance, especially in a world where constant connectivity blurs the lines between professional and personal life. Gain valuable strategies for setting boundaries, achieving financial independence, and embracing generational differences in career expectations.

A big thank you to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer, for making this episode possible. We love hearing from you! Share your thoughts with us at biteyourtongue@gmail.com and follow us on Facebook an

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Chapters

• 0:01 Navigating Relationships With Millennials
• 8:31 [Ad] Modem Futura
• 9:16 (Cont.) Navigating Relationships With Millennials
• 12:16 Navigating Life Transitions and Expectations
• 17:54 Supporting Millennials Through Life Challenges
• 23:34 Navigating Work-Life Boundaries and Mental Health
• 31:21 Establishing Work-Life Balance for Success
• 39:18 Navigating Generational Differences in Careers
• 51:11 Setting Boundaries and Supporting Young Adults

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey everyone, here's another rewind. We really think you'll love this one. This one is with Tess Brigham. She's a licensed psychotherapist and life coach, but she's also known as the millennial therapist. She interviews so many young millennials and takes us behind the scenes to really understand what are the things facing our adult children today, to really understand what are the things facing our adult children today. She's been featured in so much of the media and she also did another episode with us, a question-answer episode. You can go back and listen to that too, but this one really lets us peek behind the curtain. We hope you like it so let's get started.

Speaker 2: 0:48

if you've got a kid, where you're really, I'm really enabling them and I'm solving all their problems for them, that's where you want to stop solving their problems and simply, when you get on the phone with them, ask them questions, which is they're calling you and saying, oh my god, I don't know what to do. A pipe broke in my house and I don't know. Should I call a plumber? Do I call the landlord? What do I do? That's a moment where you want to say, well, what, huh? What do you think you should do? What makes the most sense for you right now? And coach them through solving the problem on their own.

Speaker 2: 1:18

That's one thing that I see is I see a lot of parents wanting to, you know, wanting to do it differently, maybe, than how their relationship with their own parents and they want to have this close relationship with their kids, and then they realize like, oh my God, my kid's 25 and they're calling me all day, every day, asking me about everything. And so those are the moments in time where you want to start to be a bit more strategic and think, okay, I need to get them to solve their own problem, and so that requires you to just ask questions, just questions, no statements.

Speaker 1: 1:56

Hello everyone, I'm Denise Gorin. Welcome to Bite your Tongue the podcast. Thanks for joining us as we speak with experts, authors, parents and even young adults to explore the transition from parenting our young children to building healthy relationships with our now adults. Hopefully we'll grow together, learn about ourselves, our young adults and, of course, when to bite our tongues. We are so happy you're with us, so let's get started. Bite our tongues. We are so happy you're with us, so let's get started. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Bite your Tongue the podcast. It's hard to believe, but it's been just about one year since we dropped our first episode. We're so grateful to all of you, our listeners and, of course, also to our amazing guests. We're thrilled that our listenership continues to grow and we're very touched by the feedback we continue to receive. So let's celebrate. Let's celebrate with a special offer you'll not want to miss. Starting today, you'll be able to buy these darling Bite your Tongue coffee mugs. They are fun and great to have around Well, maybe to remind you when to bite your tongue. A portion of each sale will help cover the cost of doing the podcast, so you'll get a great mug and we can keep on going. We hope you'll help us. There will be a link to buy the mugs on our website, on social media and in all of our episode notes. Remember they'll make great gifts too. We hope you love them and remember each purchase will help us keep going.

Speaker 1: 3:28

Now let's get on to this episode. Well, today we're thrilled to welcome Tess Brigham, a licensed psychotherapist, life coach and former 20-something. In fact, if you look at her website, you'll learn a lot about her 20-somethings or her 20-something years, I should say, but anyway. In a recent article from CNBC, tess says over a decade ago, when I first became a therapist, I never expected that five years later, my practice would consist of nearly 90% millennials and the rest of my patients being the parents of millennials. So hey, listeners, she's got both sides of the story covered for us. Tess has been featured in major media throughout the US, from the New York Times to O Magazine, so we're pretty excited to have her today. I think it's going to be really great, ellen, what do you say?

Speaker 3: 4:23

Oh, I totally think this is going to be great. She's going to give us that inside scoop on what she's hearing from our kids, the millennial generation, and maybe through this we can understand a bit more about them and, even more importantly, where we might offer some compassion and support and even some mental health assistance for us, as we're dealing with them and they're dealing with us.

Speaker 1: 4:45

I have to say You're telling me and Ellen, maybe we ought to all be discussing that with our new bite, your tongue mug over a cup of coffee right?

Speaker 3: 4:54

Oh, I can't wait to get mine. Yes, absolutely, Anyway, go ahead. So, tess, is it okay if we call you Tess? Oh yeah, of course. Well, we'd love to know a bit more about you and how you became a therapist with a practice of mostly millennials.

Speaker 2: 5:09

Well, so yeah, I mean Denise mentions this my website talks about my own 20 something years, because my own 20 something years were full of you know what am I doing with my life and what does it all mean? And I had my own quarter life crisis when I was 27. And I didn't really know. I worked in. My big dream when growing up was to work in film Hollywood and that's what I worked for throughout my entire life, through high school and college. I was a film major and I spent my summers spent my summers like interning at. I spent an entire summer interning at Columbia Pictures for free, and then I interned at Warner Brothers and I you know this was my dream. And when I was 24, I went off to LA and to fulfill my dream and by 27, I was pressed and exhausted and lost and confused. And and that's when I had this quarter life crisis and I ended up leaving LA, coming back to the Bay Area, which is where I'm from, and having to sort of start all over again in some ways, and that's when I finally decided that I wanted to be a therapist. That was the thing that I enjoyed the most about working. I used to work with actors and that's what I enjoyed the most about working. I used to work with actors and that's what I enjoyed the most was just being able to be, you know, listen to their problems, hear what they have to say. I thought I was pretty good at that part. And then about 10 years ago, I opened up um.

Speaker 2: 6:36

After I got licensed and all that, I opened up a practice in downtown San Francisco not really knowing who was going to show up. And what happened was that a bunch of 25, 26, 27 year olds showed up and I was like, oh, wait a second. I remember these years. I remember how lost and confused I was because it had been you know over a decade. Since I went through all of that, I was like, oh, wow, you know, being a young adult in the world today there are some things that I could really relate to with my clients that I could understand, because I also spent a good chunk of my you know 20 something years in San Francisco and in LA and I and I understood what it was like to be in the city and and to deal with sort of the day to day part.

Speaker 2: 7:16

But as I was talking to them I realized there was this whole other aspect of life that I had no idea about, that I didn't have to deal with, which was the internet, social media and really the pressures that having information at your fingertips create, the pressure of keeping up with the Joneses and having friends who are getting engaged and promoting themselves, and all of this on some social media platform or another, and that constantly being in your face. And so that's when I really started to study this generation. How are millennials different? What is their experience like?

Speaker 2: 7:57

From myself, I mean, I'm in my late 40s, so I'm a Gen Z-er, I mean Gen X-er, sorry. And so I really started to try to understand them, like, what is it about this generation and what is it that they're experiencing that no other generation has ever experienced before? And so that's where it really came from. And then, inevitably, what would happen is parents would call me because they see that I work with 20 somethings. So they'd call me up because they were lost and confused as well on what do I do about my kid. And that's when I started to work with them as well.

Speaker 1: 9:09

I know this episode we want to get into the top five or more concerns you see in your practice. But I want to ask a couple questions first. I listened to your video. So you say all this and I'm getting it. Why are the 20 somethings so hard? Have they always been so hard? And also even the adult parent relationship. I think more and more of our friends were in our sixties are talking about how to, you know, build that healthy relationship with our adult children. So you did a whole video on why young adulthood is so hard. Can you sort of sum that up for us?

Speaker 2: 9:42

Sure.

Speaker 2: 9:43

So it's hard because you're trying to do two things at once and they both inform each other and you're really flying by the seat of your pants. So, on one hand, you are trying to figure out who you are, what you want, what life's all about, how are you going to be in the world, what are you going to value and believe in? Because up until this point, your values and beliefs and how you see the world has been heavily influenced by your parents and how you lived and how you grew up. And when you're out on your own, this is your opportunity to say like, oh, do I want to make my career my entire life? Do I want to sacrifice all these things over here vacations and fun and all of that for my career? Making those big decisions around who you are and what you value, and at the same time, you're trying to figure out what kind of work do I want to do? What kind of relationship do I want to be in? Do I want to be in a relationship? How do I be in a healthy relationship? Do I want to get married? Do I want to have kids? Like, where am I going to live? You know what? All of these big questions.

Speaker 2: 10:48

And the thing is is that it's through understanding yourself and your values and what you believe in that informs the kind of jobs that you pick and the and the relationships that you have in the city that you live in, but also your experiences at your jobs and your relationships in the cities that you live in, that actually also informs your value and what you believe in.

Speaker 2: 11:10

So you're sort of walking into this thing a bit. You have a sense of who you are already, but you're walking into this and you're like okay, I have to figure all of these things out. And so the thing is is that you're constantly like in a job and you're like, okay, I have to figure all of these things out. And so the thing is is that you're constantly like in a job and you're like, oh, wait a minute, it's not quite this job and this is going to inform my values over here, and so my values are going to change a little bit. Okay, and that's going to change the job I have, right, and so this is is that there's somewhere along the way there was this myth that was created that said that you have to figure all this out by 30.

Speaker 1: 11:49

That's what I was going to say. Are they rushing it Right? Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2: 11:52

Yes, and and that's the part that's really tricky is is that this is where the social media stuff comes into play, Because when I was younger and I was looking around at my friends, you know we were all driving crappy cars and we were all broke and we were, you know, all sort of flailing around. There wasn't this thing that was attached. You know, we all have our phones attached to our hands now and there wasn't this app that I could go to, where I could scroll through and see people my age in fabulous cars taking fabulous vacations. You know, doing all of this stuff that constantly, you know, is this reminder of I'm failing in some way, I'm behind in some way, and I think we did.

Speaker 2: 12:32

We started creating these things 30 under 30 and these lists and all of that that made 30 this weird cutoff point, and I think that for a lot of young people, they really see that as, oh, I'm an adult Now if I'm over 30, this weird cutoff point, and I think that for a lot of young people, they really see that as, oh, I'm an adult now If I'm over 30, I'm officially old or I have to figure it all out, and everybody's worst fear is, if I don't figure out these things now. I'm going to wake up at 50 and be miserable. So I got to figure this out now.

Speaker 3: 12:57

Can I just tell you, hearing you say this, that a person at my age I don't know if Denise is feeling this too is it's not that different. Like, the things that you're saying that 20-somethings have to negotiate are the same sort of things that 60-something-year-olds have to negotiate, which is what's my role in the world right now. I'm not doing the same things I used to do. I'm not a parent as my primary sort of relationship, and many 60-year-olds are changing their jobs, leaving their jobs and trying to figure out what the next stage of their life is. And this is different for this generation, I think, because 50 years ago, if you reach the age of 62, you really were kind of looking at the end of your life, and now that's not the way it is at all. We're sort of expected to also have another part of our life that is productive and generative, and it's just interesting, hearing you talk about this, how similar the process is for both sides.

Speaker 1: 13:59

But I want to say I'm going to add to that, ellen, I think some of that's true, but I think the difference is when you're in your twenties you do have this fear, sort of like Tess said, if you don't do it now you're going to be a failure. And I think we've accomplished what we probably are. You know our greatest accomplishments up to 62, 63, maybe Hillary Clinton, 75 and running for president or whatever, and I always say God she can run for president. I can't even tie my shoes sometimes. You know we have all those same comparisons going on. But I think there's a lot of fear in your twenties of not taking the right steps and then that's, the whole rest of your life's going to be a failure.

Speaker 3: 14:37

Absolutely, and I do think that we gave them this impression that somehow this is, you know my little bone to pick with, just how we and I'm putting myself in there and the education system sort of make every child think that they're going to grow up to be a leader, when really only very few people can be leaders, and so I think we have set that generation up for feeling exactly like they do.

Speaker 2: 15:01

Yes, yes, absolutely Well. And the other thing I was going to say about you know, the difference between 20 and 60 is is that you have. I often say there are things about aging that I don't love, right, there's a lot of them. But one of the nicer things about getting older is you have the wisdom of time. Right, you have the wisdom of experience. And that's what a lot of times I think, as parents especially, they forget which is your kids never done this before they.

Speaker 2: 15:27

They don't know if they're going to be okay. You know you're going to be okay Cause you faced these questions before you've gotten through it. You know that you can always bounce back. You know you've been down and you figured it out. But when you're 25 and you're leaving a job that has defined you and you don't know if you're ever going to find something else, you don't know if you leave this relationship, if there's going to be someone else around the corner.

Speaker 2: 15:54

So that's the part that's really hard when you're young. You just don't, you can't really trust that things are going to. You know you're going to figure things out because you haven't had time to trust. And that's one of the biggest things that I see. Is this, this my clients really struggle with a lot of anxiety, and that anxiety is coming from this fear of right. Things aren't going to work out for me. Or I'm going to make a mistake along the way, or I'm going to fail and everything's going to fall apart. And the answer to that is always you have to trust. You have to trust that you will figure it out, and it's incredibly difficult if you have no background in it.

Speaker 1: 16:34

So what's our role as parents when we know that our kids are feeling a lot of this, making these big decisions and we're saying did you get a job, are you?

Speaker 2: 16:43

dating anyone.

Speaker 1: 16:45

You know all of that. How can we temper that and yet still feel like we're being supportive? And you know, there's lots of situations I can look back on not in my direct family where I saw parents of my parents' generation not being firm with their kids, enabling them through their whole lives, that sort of thing. So we want to be supportive but not enabling. What role can we play in lessening this anxiety without doing too much?

Speaker 2: 17:13

Yeah, and I think it's so hard and I always tell people so much of this is a case-by-case basis, really based on your kid, based on your kid and your relationship with your kid and how they are and how they've been throughout their lives. But in terms of what you can do, I think that a lot of it is doing less of the asking you know, asking those kinds of questions Like did you meet someone where you know what's going on with your career? And asking more open-ended questions about how you know what's going on with your career. And asking more open-ended questions about how you know how are you feeling, how are things going. I think also, a lot of times there's a lot of value and we can do it, especially on text. There's a lot of value in just texting your kid and saying you know, I see you doing these things, I'm so proud of you, or I see things are really difficult for you. Just want to let you know I'm thinking about you, because kids always want to, no matter who you are, what your background is like, kids need their parents approval, you know, no matter how, what your relationship is with your parents, and that is that's a very DNA, genetic right piece, because we need our parents for survival we always have and so we need their approval for survival, and so your kids are always looking for your. You know, your approval, your the stamp that that I am doing. Okay, I am living up to what you, what you want and what I want for myself, and so I think that you can cheer that part on, versus getting into the nitty gritty of work and love. And right, because we get very stuck in this place of if I have a great job where I get paid a lot and I do these things, if I'm in a marriage and and I have kids, or I have a home or whatever these other trappings are like, if I have all that, those things are going to make me happy and in actuality, they may or may not, Right, right, like you want to celebrate their happiness.

Speaker 2: 19:09

We've all learned that, yeah, but they haven't, and so they're trying to fit. Your kids are trying to figure that out for themselves and I think also just telling them, I mean, I think. I think there's a lot of value. I think there's a lot of value in leaders being vulnerable and I think there's a lot of value in parents being vulnerable as well in terms of telling them like, hey, this thing happened to me and this is what happened. I fell down and I failed and then, you know, I figured it out. I picked myself back up, giving your kids less of the lectures of what you feel like they should be doing and a bit more of this is who I. This is my life experience, this is who I am, and I have faith and belief that you two will figure it out like I'm. I'm in really enabling them and I'm solving all their problems for them.

Speaker 2: 20:04

That's a point where I would say, that's where you want to stop, stop solving their problems and, simply, you know, when you get on the phone with them, ask them questions, which is, you know if they're calling you and saying, oh my God, I don't know what to do. You know, a pipe broke in my house and I don't know. Should I call a plumber? Do I call the landlord? What do I do? That's a moment where you want to say, well, what, huh? What do you think you should do, like, what makes the most sense for you right now, and coach them through solving the problem on their own, because that's one thing that I see is I see a lot of parents wanting to, you know, wanting to do it differently maybe than how their relationship with their own parents, and they want to have this close relationship with their kids.

Speaker 2: 20:43

And then they realize like, oh my God, my kid's 25 and they're calling me all day, every day, asking me about everything. And so those are the moments in time where you want to start to be a bit more strategic and think, okay, I need to get them to solve their own problems, and so that requires you to just ask questions just questions, no statements, no-transcript, as opposed to the calling too little.

Speaker 1: 21:11

Not my kids, but go ahead, Tess.

Speaker 3: 21:14

I was going to say, yeah, what about the ones who don't call enough?

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah, I don't know. Do you have boys? No, I have a girl and a boy, and actually my boy he would call more, but my daughter is very busy. I mean she's a resident, but still he's much more a talker.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Yeah, I mean it's funny because usually, gender wise, what I've seen is that usually the girls are the ones that are calling constantly and the boys not so much. Again, I think it's the relationship that you have with your parent, that you have with them, that really determines how much they're calling or not calling. But ask your question again. I'm sorry. What was your original question?

Speaker 3: 21:54

again. I'm sorry, I got what was your? Original question. Oh, I think I just said you, you answered it, I think. Which is what about? Do you? Do you find that in this generation it's more they're they're wanting their parents too much as opposed to too little? And what do we do about the ones who want too little? I have one of each, so, but it, but it's different, it, it involves different sorts of approaches.

Speaker 2: 22:09

Either way, yeah, I mean, listen, I only have one child, so I don't know what it's like to parent multiple children. But I think, right, it's just. My assumption is is that you, you parent each child the way in which they need it, right, and so it sounds like your daughter needs a little bit. Maybe it sounds like she's got a lot going on. She's got a lot on her plate. It's not that she's not thinking of you and doesn't care about you. It's just that and doesn't care about you. It's just that you know when she finally has a half hour to herself.

Speaker 1: 22:36

She wants to zone out and watch Netflix. Well, and I was, and I was that way as a young adult. I mean, I had to call once a week and I sort of dreaded that call. I was very close to my parents. I'm not sure why I dreaded it. I'm still trying to figure that out.

Speaker 1: 22:47

I think it was sort of what you said before you always want your' approval, you know. Was I doing things that were good enough? Was I pleasing them? And when you're on the phone with them, you feel that more because you're you know what I mean You're thinking about it more. I think it's important the way you handle those calls, and we've discussed that a little bit. But let's get to some of these things. You say the number one concern that millennials have is money, and as I look at inflation and real estate prices and all that sort of thing, I don't know what I would be feeling as an emerging adult today. So what are they feeling? How can we be supportive? You know that sort of thing. That's a pretty tough situation to be in right now.

Speaker 2: 23:25

It is, it really is. And I will say I wrote that article before the pandemic and the pandemic has changed things a little bit. They're even more worried, right or not? Yes and no, it's been interesting, and maybe this this might be more of a Gen Z thing, because my I started off working with millennials. My millennials are getting older, so this new generation coming up, I have a lot of Gen Z clients as well, and so, with the, what changed with the pandemic was there were a lot of young people who had jobs that they weren't making a lot of money, and then they got fired and laid off.

Speaker 2: 23:56

And then, you know, the government was giving out like $1,000 a week. And right, we were, they were there was. Suddenly they were like, oh my God, I'm making more money now being unemployed than I ever did, working all the time, and a lot of them, right, really saved that money. And then there was these, the stipends that we were getting right. And then there was these, the stipends that we were getting right, and because they're not working, so they get the full benefit of the stipend, you know, they get the full amount. A lot of them moved back home with their parents and they didn't have as many expenses, and so what I'm seeing is this interesting thing of kids who the young ones, who really pandemic was very difficult, but financially they walked away with a lot of money and their parents are really anxious because they're not really doing anything now.

Speaker 1: 24:37

That's a real catch. That's a real catch. I would be pretty frustrated if my kid wasn't working and just depending on that kind of thing. But I found some of those kids that got those whatever stipends and stuff spent them. I mean, my husband was playing golf one day and the guy he was playing with was a tattoo artist and the tattoo artist said he can tell every time a stimulus check went out there were lines at the tattoo parlor.

Speaker 2: 25:01

Well, that'll tell you something about the job. Well, it was supposed to be a stimulus. I mean that's true?

Speaker 3: 25:05

No, I know. That's exactly right. It did what it was supposed to do. But I don't think tattoos were what they had in mind.

Speaker 1: 25:11

I think they were hoping there was a line at the grocery store Exactly, and I know how needed that was. I'm not getting into a political conversation Parent to do now that kids still living at home. I'm just going to say something. I just had an interview with these two young. They're actually comedians in Brooklyn. They have a podcast called OK Stupid and we titled the episode OK Stupid and Stupid and what Other Things your Kids Say About you. But one of the things they said in the interview was that all their friends are on antidepressants and yet they feel like they're making all the right choices in their lives. They're doing things really different from their parents. So I'm thinking and they talked a lot about their friends living at home and all that sort of thing. So I'm wrapping up a lot of things in one, but what's going?

Speaker 2: 25:54

on here A couple of different things I mean. One is that you know the, the relationship that people have the younger generations to mental health is very, very different, right?

Speaker 2: 26:06

Okay, for the first time and I mean, I think the pandemic one of the things of the pandemic that I think has been a positive is I think we're finally talking about mental health, we're finally talking about the. You know that we've created a society in a world where technology is great. Technology has helped us tremendously, and imagine the pandemic without technology. It would have been a mess, right To keep it going. I couldn't have been able to keep my business going.

Speaker 1: 26:30

Nobody would have.

Speaker 2: 26:31

Yeah, and so it's really positive. But the flip side of it is and what we forget is is that the expectations that we have on young people in the workplace today is radically different. So you know, my first job out of college, I worked 930 to 530. And when 530 hit, we locked the doors. We turn off the lights. We locked the doors and we left and my boss had no way of getting ahold of me unless she called me at home and I picked up.

Speaker 2: 26:58

But what's happening now with millennials and now Gen Zers is is that when technology hit, it was like a free for all, like people were working nonstop, especially here in the San Francisco Bay area, where we have Silicon Valley Almost everywhere. Yeah, and so what was happening and I saw this with my clients I was like God, there's no. You yourself, at age 25, 26, you have to figure out your own boundaries. Like there are no boundaries, the blinds are really blurry, everything is really blurry for these young people. So what was happening is that the technology really overtook everything and made it, really made this younger generation feel like they had to be if they wanted to excel and succeed and be a good employee, to be constantly, constantly working.

Speaker 2: 27:46

What I've seen is is that I think a lot of young people what's happened is is that with the pandemic, and everything that's happened is that they're asking themselves these questions of like what's my life all about? Like, do I really want to be tied down to my computer, you know, in my bedroom for the rest of my life? Is this what my life's going to look like, you know, forever and ever? And then they started to ask themselves these questions ever and ever. And then they started to ask themselves these questions. But before the pandemic, young people were much more willing to go see a therapist.

Speaker 2: 28:21

Millennials were primarily raised by baby boomers who were very accepting if their kid had an issue when they were young, to take them to a therapist right. So they were introduced to therapy very early and I had a lot of clients that came to me that were like, yeah, I went to therapy in my teens but then I stopped. But now I'm in my 20s and I'm going to come back. So they're they're very accepting of that and you know a part of it's it's not we don't push meds on people the first thing that they come in, but if someone's really struggling and having a hard time we recommend and I do, too, recommend medications, and so I think that the thing is is that people have been on these meds for a long, long time. They just never talked about them. That's true.

Speaker 2: 29:04

People have been in therapy for a long, long time. They just never talked about it as much as they're talking about it now. So it seems like, oh my God, everyone's on antidepressants and everyone's depressed and everyone's this and everyone's that. It's like no, no, no. People have been anxious for a long time. It's just these younger generations are willing to say hey, I'm anxious, help me, point me in the right direction. And that's the real difference. But they've also shown that, yes, all of this technology is making us anxious, that we are really struggling with our attention span because we can't focus on anything for more than a few minutes. Right, if you don't hook someone in six seconds, they're gone forever. You know, I record videos for YouTube. I gotta like make them shorter and shorter. I'm constantly doing things like Instagram. You know you want to put up a reel Like I'm supposed to solve your problems in less than 60 seconds.

Speaker 1: 29:56

And now you got TikTok, which is sort, of like you know, bringing YouTube down to a second.

Speaker 2: 30:01

Yes, yes, and people are scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. So it's hard.

Speaker 1: 30:07

So what do you tell these kids? I'm feeling anxious just talking about this. I can't even imagine what it would be like. I mean, I'm so glad I'm older, because if I was young and feeling a lot of I mean, I never closed the door at 530. I would work till 830 or nine in my first job, but I knew at nine o'clock when I went home no one would call me and there was no computer at home, so I couldn't keep working, I couldn't keep writing.

Speaker 1: 30:27

So even if it was not nine to five, you knew you had a break when you got home. Now you never have a break. So what's the answer to this and what do you tell these kids when it's causing so much anxiety and life questions? And how is the world going to deal with it?

Speaker 2: 30:41

Well, I tell them that they need to set those boundaries for themselves. They need to figure out for themselves, like, what is it, you know, how long do I want to work? And setting a boundary and setting a line for themselves. And when we set boundaries, we it's going to feel a little uncomfortable. That's what happens A lot of times. People set these boundaries and then they start to feel uncomfortable and then they're like oh, no, no, that means the boundary is wrong. It's like no, no, it just means that you know it's it's a hard boundary to set. So, you know, if I have clients who are constantly, it's a hard boundary to set. So if I have clients who are constantly, constantly working, it's really figuring out okay, how many hours do you want to work, what feels reasonable, okay, this is the time, and I will sit there with them and help them plan that out. And then plan out like okay, so if your boss texts you, what are you going to do?

Speaker 1: 31:28

What do you do?

Speaker 2: 31:37

Well, you have a couple different. I mean, it depends on the boss, but you have a couple of different options, I think one is, I think, going into the office and setting talking to your boss about when you text me on the weekends. Are you expecting me to respond? Because that's the biggest thing. My clients just have never even had a conversation with their boss about this particular issue.

Speaker 2: 31:48

I said, you know, if you are emailing, finding out from them saying, hey, if you're emailing me on the weekends, if you're texting me, what's the expectation? Find out what is expected of you first, and then, once you know and most of the time, what I found is they would go and talk to their bosses about it and the boss would be like, oh no, I just was thinking about this and I just sent it to you. I didn't think of anything of it. So usually it works itself out and then they can then say well, you know. Then they know, they know they don't need to respond, they know they don't need to do anything about it.

Speaker 2: 32:24

I also think that part of it, too, is really making a conscious choice not to check your work email after a certain time. Or if you're going to check your work email, you do it at this time and you get like, if you get caught up in something, you have 20 minutes to do it and then you're done. It has to be an emergency. So each person's very different about what they need. And then I think that if you have a situation where you have a boss who doesn't respect your boundaries and and is constantly pinging you, and then it comes back to you to figure out like how much do I want this job, how important is this to me, to do that, and then making that decision from there.

Speaker 1: 32:55

Well, you said something earlier that struck me, which was they were feeling, in order to excel, they had to do this, and I still think some of that exists. The person that gets back to the boss or is engaged over the weekend or at nine o'clock at night has an idea, all that sort of thing. There's reward for that, and it's also hard as a worker not to feel that reward, because that's where you get your. I mean, money is one thing, but you also get strokes through affirmations and that you're doing a good job. When the boss says, wow, every time I text you, you're right on it, you feel I'm doing a good job.

Speaker 2: 33:34

So you almost have to change that mindset as well. Yeah, and that's another thing. I pre-pandemic I used to go into companies and talk to employees and it was always really interesting because I would be usually there, hired to talk about, you know, mental health in the workplace or how to de-stress, and the irony was that it was, it was always the workers. It was never management would never come. And the thing was that as I was chatting with people, I knew that they were in that bind, which is, you know, it's this thing where, yes, if you work, work, work and work all the time and you make work your life, then you're going to get rewarded. But at the same time, the company is also talking out of the other side of their mouth, saying, but you need to take time off, and here we're going to hire someone to come in and talk to you about stress. Right, right, right, right, and. And. And they knew, they knew they were in this bind. And here I am telling them to like, set boundaries and do all this stuff. And they know that.

Speaker 2: 34:23

So I don't disagree with you. Yes, no-transcript the praise. But careers are a marathon, not a sprint. You will get burned out. I've seen it time and time again and companies have to realize that that if they, If they want to create long-lasting employees which is what is always cheaper and more effective in the end if you want to keep and retain your employees, then it requires the leaders, the management, to change this way of thinking and this way of being and to start to change and modify for these younger generations. But the problem is is that when I say that to older generations, they don't like that. No, they don't at all Because, much like myself, I trust me, that was just that first job that I left at 530. Once.

Speaker 1: 35:47

I moved to Hollywood, everything changed. Yeah, you worked your bottom off. Yes, my dad, you know, drilled into me first to be there last to leave.

Speaker 2: 35:55

Yes, and so that's. The thing is is that that was for a long, long time. That was the secret to success, right, which was you work really hard and you, you know you can buy things. But the problem now is is that it doesn't work like that anymore. Back in 1950, the average American had a 90% chance of out-earning their parent. Today, you have about, I think, less than 50% chance. That's huge. So what's happening with millennials and Gen Zers is this the American dream has changed, because in your generation and in my generation, we were told if you work hard, you go to college, you find a career. You first one in, last one out.

Speaker 2: 36:39

If you do all of that. You can have a home, women, right, we can have it all. You can have a home, you can have retirement. You can have all of these things. All of this will be given to you.

Speaker 2: 36:49

The problem is that you're not going to have those no-transcript. And so, yes, I am sorry, if you are a manager at a company and you were browbeaten by your bosses when you were younger and you had to work your way up, and now you're sitting on the top and now you can't treat people poorly. You have to like. You know what they always say is oh my God, I have to kowtow to these. You know snowflakes, right, right. And it's like you talk a lot about the reputation that these kids have and you really don't think they are what they have the reputation of. Yes, and I think that's that's.

Speaker 2: 37:52

The problem is, is that the minute these older generations here like, hey, maybe you should approach it from this place or be vulnerable or understand it or change your behavior, that mentality of but I worked so hard to get to where I am, why should I change? They need to change, and what I think is really unique and special about millennials and Gen Zers is they're sort of these generations that are saying, no, we're not going to do that, because not only are we not going to get a pension at the end of our jobs, not only are we unsure of all of these things, we have ways of making money now that were not possible before, and we don't need you. That's true too, you know, that's the thing. It's funny, because when I was in Hollywood and working constantly like the thing was, the only way to work up was you had to be someone's assistant and you had to be someone's assistant.

Speaker 2: 38:41

You had to put up with their crap and you had to put up with their behavior and how they treated you, to get crumbs from them to teach you how to do this job that you eventually wanted to do, right. But the thing is, nowadays, kids can just they just go on YouTube, I can just figure this out, I can set up a small business, I can do this, I can do that. And being an entrepreneur is such a big thing now with social media and all of that, that there's so many young people that are like, well, I'm not going to put up with that, like why should I? I'll just go and do my own thing, I mean.

Speaker 3: 39:11

I have to say, though, that that's a very small percentage of kids. I mean, most kids are not going to be entrepreneurs. Most of us are going to have to be assistants in something to start out in.

Speaker 1: 39:22

Well, in some way, ellen, but what she's saying and I see this a lot it's sort of this whole gig economy. They may not be entrepreneurs, but they're putting together five or six different things that are making them the same salary that they were making. Now, someone remember when we interviewed those two young adults from Adultish and we talked about that a little bit? They said, yes, that's true, but is it what was the word they use? Will it stay? You know, is it what was the word they used? You remember, ellen? They said you know, it might just be short lived.

Speaker 3: 39:50

Yeah, I mean yes, and that's true, but I think it sort of sells something. I mean, eventually people do have to, you know, plant tomatoes and have stores and things like that. Like there's it's sort of I don't know. I think it feeds their that sense of anxiety that, oh, I'm going to be an entrepreneur and if I'm not, then I'm a failure at that too. I mean, I think there are some kids who will be successful at that, but the vast majority are still going to have to take those jobs that you know. I mean they're not everybody can be an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1: 40:21

I agree, and then I also worry. I mean, I have a son who's an entrepreneur and I worry about his 401k insurance, disability insurance they forget about all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 40:30

Yes, we do. Listen, ellen, I agree with you that not everyone can be an entrepreneur, but the main thing is is that I just remember when I was younger, in my twenties, I did not question any, anything of what I you know, any of this. I didn't question that, and part of why I didn't question was there were no other. You know, the path was so clear, right, and what happened with the Internet and the way information is seen? Because young people don't see information the same way that I know I see information, because once upon a time you had to work to get information. You had to work to get knowledge and experience from somebody, and the world that we live in today is anyone become an expert in something without really ever having to work for it or find it or find that knowledge right?

Speaker 2: 41:27

Everything is so readily available to people that information has changed considerably, and so that's one of the things that I see is when millennials and Gen Zers, they come into the workplace, you know they're not. They're not looking at their bosses as that same thing of oh, I'm going to get information from this person, I want to take these crumbs from you. You know they're looking there because they have information. They're looking for other things. They're looking for a relationship and mentorship, much more than I think I ever did, and so so much has changed in that way and I don't know. It will be interesting to see what happens with Gen Zers, like what they end up doing, right, because we have this great resignation and I see this constantly and the big thing is a lot of my clients. They don't like service jobs, any kind of waitressing or bartending or any of that. They're hard to fill these days.

Speaker 2: 42:23

And that is an area that a lot of young people are sort of willing to make other sacrifices to not have to take those kinds of jobs.

Speaker 3: 42:31

So somebody's got to take those jobs. Who's going to take them? Do you think I don't know?

Speaker 2: 42:35

I mean someone will when you answer that yeah, when you answer that I mean.

Speaker 3: 42:40

it's interesting though, because it's like are we all just going to not have restaurants anymore?

Speaker 1: 42:46

It's not just restaurants.

Speaker 3: 42:48

You know, like nobody wants to be a waitress instead of, I mean, my feeling is that I mean we should honor those professions. Yes, of course I mean. My feeling is that I mean we should honor those professions as opposed to, you know, look at them with sort of disdain.

Speaker 1: 43:00

But that, I think, is a generational difference that we're talking about, Right, we've been talking about money a lot and we don't have a whole lot more time, so I'd really like to hear from you, tess, what other things do you think are on the top of mind of the struggles with young adults? I mean, I listed a few things. There seems to be a lot of mother-daughter conflict, unresolved childhood conflicts. Anything that comes up in your practice where you see these are things that you could share with our listeners. That they should pay attention to Boundaries is another big one. Do they come very much talking about my mom's driving me crazy or my dad's driving me crazy? Or how do I separate? What are some of the top things you?

Speaker 2: 43:36

hear adult hood, when you really start to understand yourself and understand your opinions, and so what a lot of is. It's a lot of parsing out for young people of is this what I believe or is this what my parents believe and told me I should believe? Right, and that's a big thing Because, especially when it comes around, a lot of parents said to their kids like become an accountant, become a lawyer, become this, become that, you'll always have a job. It's a good, it's a good living. You need to work hard. And a lot of people went out and did that. They became lawyers. They, you know, they became accountants and then they're four or five years into the job and they hate it. You know they're really miserable.

Speaker 2: 44:29

So a lot of it is trying to understand for themselves with their parents. Like how do I forge my own path that is different than what I was taught and what I was told? How do I? How do I do that? But there's, there's that part about it and it's also. And then, how do I make? How do I declare and say I want to do this and not disappoint my parents or not freak out my parents, because you're younger and you, you're an adult now and you can see things a lot clearer.

Speaker 2: 45:01

A lot of times young people are able to sort of look back at their parents, whether their parents got divorced or mom or dad had an affair or they had a step-parent that they didn't like. You can go back as an adult now and look at your childhood and look at those things and you're trying to understand your parents and why they did what they did and understand your relationship. So there is that piece of it of kids, you know, wanting answers from their parents of like, why did you get divorced and why are why? You know, why did you move or why did you leave, or or any of these things. So it's a lot of it's a lot of kind of trying to understand yourself through your parents.

Speaker 1: 45:37

That makes so much sense and I think what it opens up to me is, I think, for our listeners being willing to talk about those things. I mean, my daughter said something to me recently. I mean, you know, she's a fourth year resident, she's working her buns off and she says, you know, so-and-so just left early the other day and said she was worn out. And she said, you know, mom, I wish I could do that, but you just drilled into me not to quit, you know, and I felt so bad. I mean, I didn't feel bad and I understood what I drilled into her, but I was glad she was having those thoughts and thinking for herself in that way. So I think being able to talk about it is probably important, do you agree?

Speaker 2: 46:12

Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think the way you handled it was very good, because I think sometimes there's this one of this want to be defensive of, yes, you shouldn't quit, right, you know I taught you that and that's great. And I too, listen, I, I have parents who, um, very much taught myself and my sister. You know work, you know work hard and you know excel and and all of that, and I too have those feelings where it's like God, I wish you told me to take a vacation more.

Speaker 1: 46:37

Right. Well, you know, honey, she says to me when I started ballet, you wouldn't let me quit when.

Speaker 3: 46:41

and I had no thoughts that I was like that, I thought she enjoyed everything she was doing you know I'm going to just intercede here, that you know this is not necessarily shameful to not be able to say. You know what I'm going to push through this, I mean that's why people do their own stuff instead of walks around the block. I mean, there's a balance in here and I think we tend to go one direction or the other.

Speaker 1: 47:04

And that's also like.

Speaker 3: 47:04

Katie shouldn't feel bad because she's not that other person. That other person is a separate person with different goals, different values.

Speaker 1: 47:14

But you know, Ellen, I was glad she was thinking about it and making decisions for herself. She'll never be a quitter that's not her personality but I'm glad she's thinking about herself.

Speaker 2: 47:25

And I think that what I was going to say was your reaction to her, was it doesn't sound like you got defensive and tried to, you know, put your stand or sort of apologize? I think it's important to sort of just take it in.

Speaker 1: 47:36

Well, I did apologize a little bit, no no, no, she liked ballet, she liked it.

Speaker 3: 47:42

I can tell you this with 100% certainty. I'm just kidding, and if you hadn't, I mean that's the other side of the coin, is that?

Speaker 1: 47:56

you. You know, had you allowed her to quit a lot of things, you'd have a different you know a different. You're right, there's a balance, there's absolutely everything they're saying is right, you're right, but I'm sure those are the exact kind of things they talked, tess, about. That's my guess, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:07

Being a parent myself, and I'll always say I always say this to my clients or to whomever it's like the parents aren't the enemy when I'm in the room with them. Their parents are not their enemy. I'm a mother, I know what it's like, and you? There is no way you get through parenting unscathed, no way. It is so hard, so, so hard, and so I think the best thing that you can do for your kids is to be able to write that was, that was your daughter's experience. Her experience and her mind was I wanted to quit ballet and mom didn't. So it's not about you defending that experience or apologizing for it or anything. It was just saying you know, I hear you, you know, I see you, I hear you and and I you know, because in the end, I think that kids just want to be seen by their parents for who they are and accepted for who they are. Right, that's the core of it.

Speaker 1: 48:57

We hear that all the time from the young adults we interview. Whatever the situation, they always hear their parents' voice in their minds. Okay, we've been going on really long here and we've got to wrap up, but I promised I would ask this one listener question test and it's a little bit in regards to money. So I'm going to ask this question and then we're going to ask you to give us our few takeaways for our listenership, unless, ellen, do you have anything else before I do this?

Speaker 3: 49:19

No, because I love this question. I'm glad you're getting to it because I actually know a few people are having trouble getting their kids out of the house.

Speaker 1: 49:26

Yeah. So the listener question was they have a young adult daughter. So she and her husband have been helping their young adult daughter in the last few years after college to help her get her feet on the ground, and now she's moved in with her boyfriend and the parents feel that their support should stop but don't know how to approach it with their adult child. What should their steps be or how would you address this?

Speaker 2: 49:46

Well, I think, first, the parents have to get on the same page about what they feel comfortable doing. Like, you know, if they're both on the same page of we really need to, we don't want to support her any longer then what I would do is I would go to her and I would put together a plan. You know you don't want to spring it on them like we're cutting you off, but you, you want to be able to go to her and say hey, you know, we've been supporting you, we're we feel like we've done enough, we can't do this anymore. However, you want to phrase it and just say okay, so we're going to put together a plan for the next six months, you know, and we can do it in a couple of different ways. We can slowly stop, 10 by 10% each month, or every, you know, whatever it is. Um, we can slowly give you less and less money, or we can, or we can say you know, at the end of the six months we're giving you six months warning, we're going to stop supporting you at all. I would go and I would just say this is the plan, this is what we're doing.

Speaker 2: 50:44

And you know, if your kid comes back at you and being like, oh my God, I can't. I can't put it back on them and say, okay, you need to tell us exactly where. If you want our financial support, you need to tell us what you need specifically and where it's going to go. We're not going to just blanket give you money, because I have a lot of.

Speaker 2: 51:04

I hear this all the time, like kids get on the cell phone, family plan, right, and the parents just keep paying for it. Or sometimes they'll pay for insurance or health insurance because they're worried about it. That's why I'm saying you and your partner have to kind of get on the same page of listen. We want to cut her off, but we're worried about the health insurance. Let's just keep paying that. We'll tell her this. Right, the two of you want to make sure that you know what you want and then just go and tell them like this is what's going to happen. And if you, if something needs to be different, you need to come back to me and tell us what is the plan and what is your plan for eventually becoming financially free. You know, like you can't, we can't, we're not going to pay this bill in perpetuity.

Speaker 1: 51:47

Right, you know. I love the way you said that you know, because I had a situation, um and it was again the generation before mine where the parents basically supported their young adult child through his marriage, with the kids never asking where that money was going to, and I thought, my gosh, the parents are, like you know, giving them everything. So I love the idea of saying you know, if you continue to need it, let us know where it's going.

Speaker 3: 52:11

Yeah, yeah, that's a good, that's a good phrase, good.

Speaker 1: 52:13

So, anyway, I really appreciate that. Now, tess, before we end, we always ask for a few takeaways. You're talking to our adult parents. What are the two or three things that you really want our audience to remember and think about?

Speaker 2: 52:25

So if you have a child who is calling you constantly, wanting you to solve every single problem you don't know how to stop, then it's time for you to set a boundary, and the easiest way of doing that is stop solving their problems. And when you get on the phone or text, you only ask questions. You always put things back on them. How do you think you should do that? What do you think you should say?

Speaker 2: 52:48

Number two is be aware that the world is very, very different now and that your kids are going through something that is very different, even if it feels like, hey, it's the same stuff I went through, it is all new to them. It is all new to them they don't know yet. So when someone doesn't know, what do you do? Do you shame them? No, you recognize and understand it and help guide them through. And that, finally, the core thing is your kid, your children, just want you to love them and accept them for who they are. So always, when you walk into any difficult conversation or get on the phone with them or anything, just keep that in mind. Like, my child wants me to love them and recognize them for who they are today, and it may not be what you wanted or what you planned, but that's being a parent, yeah that's such an important thing to remember.

Speaker 1: 53:46

That's the hard part too, about being a parent. Tess, this has been wonderful. I think what you're doing and the audience that you've gravitated to is wonderful. You'll help so many people and I'm glad you had aitated to is wonderful. You'll help so many people and I'm glad you had a terrible time in LA, yes, so, thank you so so much for joining us today. Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 54:06

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 54:12

So that's a wrap. Thanks, tess, so much for your insight into our young adult children and some of the struggles that they face that we might not quite understand. I think we all know that every generation has their own hurdles and, as Tess said, in the end it's really about loving our kids for who they are. That really seems like just the definition of parenting. After the interview I thought, thought about my father, who loved his job so much he was able to involve all of us in his job and it kind of became a family affair In the end. I'm glad he drilled into me the value of hard work. I do believe it's still very important. Anyway, learn more about Tess and her practice by visiting TessBringhamCoachingcom. That's Tess T-E-S-S, brigham, b-r-i-g-h-a-m coachingcom. She also offers a number of books, like A Radically Practical Guide to Liking your 20s and some online courses to help young adults find their true selves, set goals and make some of those important life decisions. Go to her website and you'll find a link to her courses and her books. It might be something you'll want to share with your young adult children.

Speaker 1: 55:32

Thanks again to Connie Fisher, our audio engineer, and to you all of our listeners. Check out our social media sites and you'll find the link to buy our new Bite your Tongue mug. Let's spread the word and, finally, remember, sometimes you just have to bite your tongue. This conversation will keep us going. Just go to our website at biteyourtonguepodcastcom and select support us. You'll find lots of ways you can help keep us going. So, thanks, so much. Thanks for listening. And remember, sometimes you say it, kirsten, sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.

Speaker 3: 56:17

Thank you.