Overcoming Guilt and Embracing Change: Strengthening Bonds with Your Adult Kids

Are you missing the signs?  Do you really know how your adult child feels and are you ready to begin to mend a fractured relationship?   In this episode, we sit down with Sally Harris, to explore the nuances of maintaining strong, healthy relationships with adult children. From navigating differing values to addressing estrangement, Sally shares practical advice and strategies for parents striving to build deeper connections while respecting boundaries.

Here are some of the things we discuss:

1. Recognizing the Parent-Child Dynamic 
2. Prioritizing Self-Care
3. Mastering Effective Communication
4. Offering Support Without Judgment 
5. Embracing Differing Values
6. Focusing on Your Role

Huge thank you to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.

Send your ideas for episodes and guests to biteyourtonguepodcast@gmail.com.

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Chapters

• 0:18 Rebuilding Relationships With Adult Children
• 7:02 Navigating Strained Mother-Child Relationships
• 10:07 [Ad] Deepcozy Nasal Irrigator
• 10:45 (Cont.) Navigating Strained Mother-Child Relationships
• 17:08 Improving Communication With Adult Children
• 24:33 Navigating Family Life Transitions
• 33:24 Balancing Expectations and Self-Care
• 44:32 Navigating Family Dynamics With Humility

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Bite your Tongue, the podcast. I'm Denise and I'm here with my co-host, kirsten. Today we're talking with a mom of an adult child who's traveled a very difficult road. She says on her website sally-harriscom, by the way that while her daughter's life spun out of control, hers was doing the same. Now, mind you, she's not a certified therapist. She's a mom who has really been in the trenches. She suffered a decade of addiction, depression and anxiety. She also understands that no two situations are alike, but one thing she says that's always the same is a mother's heart, and I'm going to add a father's heart too heart, and I'm going to add a father's heart too. We hope to hear a bit about her journey and get some tips for keeping our relationships with our adult children intact while still living our own lives. She deals quite a bit with estrangement and we've covered a lot of that. So today we're hoping to talk about recognizing the cues in your relationship and, like our podcast says, build healthy relationships with our adult kids.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Yeah, we recently recorded an episode with Tess Brigham and asked a lot of listener questions. It was interesting because this was a common theme, both estrangement, the fear of abandonment, as well as being abandoned. Sally, welcome, can you share a little bit about your journey for our listeners and how you decided to reach out and try to help others?

Speaker 3: 1:49

Absolutely Well. Thank you for having me first of all Appreciate that. So you know, like Denise said, I'm a mom who walked a difficult road with my own daughter for over a decade, and I always say when her life spiraled, so did mine, and it does not have to be that way. But at the time I didn't know how to cope and so I just went into the pit. I ended up becoming an alcoholic. I had become very unhealthy and I had gained 70 pounds. I was just extremely unhealthy and a diagnosis is what actually turned me around. But I now have eight years of sobriety and, for the record, I am reconciled with my daughter. She has been back in the family for about four years. So great, that's a huge blessing. Yeah, that's great, but it really boils down to I fully believe that we're best positioned to serve the person we once were.

Speaker 1: 2:43

Say that one more time. I missed what you said.

Speaker 3: 2:45

I think we are best positioned to serve the person we once were. So I was that mom. So when you ask why I started doing this, is I wanted to be the person that I didn't have. I didn't have that support system, don't get me wrong. I had friends, I had family around me, but I had nobody that had gone through it. So everyone has great advice and you take it all, you kind of muddle through it, but at the end of the day, I had no guidance, and so that's really what I was lacking. So that's why I do what I do now. What I was lacking. So that's why I do what I do now. I started locally, in my home, in a group setting back in 2016-ish, serving moms who were estranged, and at that time I was still on the journey myself, and I started my YouTube channel about four and a half years ago, and now I do one-on-one and group coaching for moms specifically. But I love how you included dads in this, because they're hurting too.

Speaker 1: 3:45

It's interesting the way you said your life spun out of control. I think that's true for I mean, at least for me. I can only identify as a mom. But when my child hurts, whether they were a kid or an adult, I think I hurt more. I hate to say that, but it's because I have no control. I don't know what they're doing. I can't make any progress for them. Does that make sense? I'm hoping they get out of whatever it is and I hope we're gonna talk more about that. We're gonna talk about the worry and all that sort of thing. But I wanna ask you so this whole issue of building healthy relationships with your adult kids seems to be top of mind lately. I mean, we started our podcast like three years ago. People weren't talking too much about it. You have nearly 20,000 followers on your YouTube channel and your shorts, in particular, I think, are really good. What's changed that this is happening?

Speaker 3: 4:35

Yeah, and like you say, I'm not a certified therapist.

Speaker 1: 4:38

No, no, I know that. We said that right up front. We said that right up front.

Speaker 3: 4:41

So I just wanted to reiterate that. So when I answer your question, you know I feel like some of it is culture, society. We can't seem to agree to disagree anymore. We used to be able to have different opinions on things and then just know that. You know, that's just not a topic we go, that we discuss and it wasn't really a big deal. Nowadays, if you don't agree, it doesn't matter what the topic is. There seems to be a complete disconnect and nobody is willing to agree to disagree, and I also think the mental health issue is definitely on the rise. One thing that I see a lot and I can tell you from firsthand experience with this as well, which is why I reiterated that I'm not a therapist I have had tons from firsthand experience with this as well, which is why I reiterated that I'm not a therapist. I have had tons of therapy. Don't get me wrong. I've had trauma therapy. I think that makes you a therapist.

Speaker 1: 5:31

but anyway, go ahead. No, we're very clear on that. You're a mother who's walked in the trenches, has learned a lot, but you've also talked to a lot of people, you see the climate.

Speaker 3: 5:40

So what I was going to say about that was what I see over and over, and I'm not saying every therapist is this way, but what happens is these kids will go seek therapy and they're being told to cut off the family. My best thought on that is anytime I have a client who thinks that they need to go see some, see a therapist, or they want to try to do therapy with their child, by all means, if that's what you want to do, absolutely do it. But make sure that you're with somebody whose goal is to reconcile the family. It doesn't mean there's not times where people do need to like okay, this is kind of really toxic, they're super disrespectful one way or the other parent or child and there's a time where you're like I gotta, I gotta put some boundaries up here because this is killing me, like this is really hard. So in those cases, absolutely there's a time, but I don't believe it should ever be forever, because forever is a long time, sally we interviewed Joshua Coleman.

Speaker 1: 6:35

You've probably read his book. He came out with one of these first books you and your Adult Child. He said something very similar to this that so many therapists they're literally helping them write the letter. And I thought and I said afterwards, kirsten and I were like why aren't people saying let's bring your parents in here, let's talk about this, let's figure out how to?

Speaker 3: 6:53

reconcile Right Exactly, and that's what's so painful is because it's only one sided. So while I am serving the moms and granted, you could say that's one sided too, because I'm not hearing the child's perspective but my goal and I really I try to stay middle ground there. Sometimes it's really obvious what's going on one way or the other, but for the most part we try to look at the fact that our kids have perspectives too. We don't have to agree with them, but they're going to have their own perception of what happened that day or the argument that happened, or whatever the case may be. But it doesn't mean their perception is wrong. It's their reality, whether we like it or not. Let's meet somewhere in the middle and try to reconcile these families, because that's the goal for me anyway, that's my goal, and to do that I have to get these moms healthy, or or it's never going to happen.

Speaker 1: 7:40

That's exactly right. So that leads right into the next question. I watched the video that you talked about how to let go of your adult kids. I loved what you said there. You said it's not about letting go and moving on from them, but about moving forward in your own life. So talk about that a little bit, yeah.

Speaker 3: 7:59

Well, I think most moms can agree that we do the best we can with our kids. We raise them where they're like our everything and we kind of put our own lives on hold and then, before we know it, they're adults and we're like wait a minute, where'd they go? Or these issues start happening as teens and we don't know how to handle it because we have lost ourself in the process. We are so codependent on being a mom and having that relationship with the son or daughter or multiple kids, even where we lose our own identity. Being a mom is like one of I don't know, it's one of my favorite titles, besides being a gam. I don't know which one's better, but I love being a gam.

Speaker 3: 8:37

But you're a mom, you might be a wife, you're a friend, you're a daughter, you're all these other things, but the only thing we focus on is being a mom. And when this estrangement happens or just a rocky relationship and we don't know how to handle it, we lose ourself and we fall into this pit, like I did because I didn't have the control, like you mentioned earlier. I really think that we nurture and love, but we forget about ourselves. I think that's where it starts. So that's what I do now is helping these moms figure out what brings you joy. You can be a mom and still take time for yourself, and so I love that we're having this proactive conversation, kind of because it's so important, because if I would have known what to do back then, oh my goodness, I think I could have had a faster outcome as well, just because I wouldn't have made as many mistakes.

Speaker 2: 9:26

Well, I think you know we all, we know we all make mistakes, or nobody gives us a manual when we have kids. So you talk a lot about releasing that guilt that comes from having made those mistakes. We all do. We all look back and think, oh gosh, if I'd just done this differently, would this kid be better off or worse off or whatever. How do you release that guilt? What do you do? What do you tell parents to help them with that piece?

Speaker 3: 9:50

Because that's huge, it's a big, it's a big deal for all of us, even moms who aren't going through strained relationships, absolutely, I mean, I don't have strained relationships.

Speaker 1: 9:59

So if your kid doesn't call, I think that you think, whatever choices they're making, you think, oh, if I would have done that different anyway.

Speaker 3: 10:38

Absolutely. I think it starts with self-awareness versus starts with acceptance, because we can't change the past. None of us can, no matter what. That is one thing you cannot change, but the self-awareness of knowing that, okay, did I do the best I could with what I knew at the time. Most moms can say yes to that. There might've been a few times where you're like that was not so smart, I probably shouldn't have done that. But at the end of the day, we have conversations with our kids and someone raised their voice or somebody got mad or whatever the case may be, and you had that guilt about a conversation. You could have a guilt about the I got divorced or I didn't get divorced. I hear both sides of that. There's just so many things, but it really boils down to knowing that we can't change the past and controlling your thoughts, because how do you?

Speaker 3: 11:25

control your thoughts. You have to take hold of them, because life and death is in the power of the tongue First of all, and we, even the way we speak to ourselves. People forget about that. Like, the way we speak to one another is one thing, but what are you saying to yourself? We never keep promises to ourselves. We try really hard and we want to honor everybody else, but we don't honor ourselves. And this isn't about being selfish or anything like that. It's about just being a whole, healed, healthy person which, trust me, I had to revamp that whole scenario.

Speaker 1: 11:58

Yeah, I mean, I also went to a therapist who made me say into the mirror every morning I'm a wonderful person or something. We have this phrase and I would say to him I can't say it because I don't believe it. They'd say I'm a something, something, something I'm like, oh, come on, what am I going to say this to myself for? But I think that really makes a difference, doesn't it?

Speaker 3: 12:17

Yeah, those are like affirmations, right, just like anything else you would say to yourself positively. You probably aren't going to believe it in the beginning, but the more you speak it, you will. I always look at it like we have a choice. I can focus on the negative aspect of what my child is doing and it's really bothering me and I'm worried for them of what my child is doing and it's really bothering me and I'm worried for them, and I just focus on the negative and I focus on an outcome that I don't even have any proof is gonna happen, but I focus there anyway. That's what happens a lot.

Speaker 3: 12:44

I did the same thing To the point where I planned my daughter's funeral. I was so convinced and I had to be prepared because I had to be in control of that, and at that point in time I hadn't lost anyone. I had not, other than my grandma when I was a kid, and so I was like, how does this work? And we had a friend that owned the funeral home in town, so I went to her and I was like, please just walk me through this. What happened? And now I'm like, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 13:11

So I was literally claiming that, okay, your daughter, my daughter, is going to pass and I'm going to get this horrible phone call Right. And it was devastating to even go through that process and I look back now I'm thinking, why did I do that way from me and I was letting my thoughts control her destiny, and mine really, and I was just had it all planned out to the point where I even took action, which is really scary. But I always ask people like when, with your thoughts, like, what proof do you have? Do you have any proof that what you're catastrophizing is actually going to happen?

Speaker 1: 13:48

Ooh, I like that. Why do we catastrophize? Cause we've talked about this before. I definitely will go to the glasses doesn't even have any water, I'll find the worst thing that might happen. My husband says to me why do you always think the worst? Why do we catastrophize? Am I saying that word right?

Speaker 3: 14:14

I know that's a big one, right? Yeah, I know I think a lot of it for me. I'm not sure about for you, but for me it was. I had a lot of bad things happen in my life and so I just expected that negative outcome. Sometimes I think we we try to protect ourselves. Like well, if I plan on the worst thing, then anything better than that will be okay. Yeah, but I don't think that's and I get the mentality when you like logically, but I don't think it does anything to serve your health or your mind.

Speaker 1: 14:37

So let's go back to what you said about the tongue. I want you to say that again I think it was the positive or negative because our tongues also play a lot. Well, we call this bite your tongue. Our tongues also play a big part in our relationship with our adult kids, because we had one guest say a parent's voice comes to the child like a megaphone and we have to be very careful and very thoughtful with our approach. So I want to hear a little bit more about that, if you don't mind or if you can.

Speaker 3: 15:06

Yeah, do you mean like life and death is in the power of the tongue?

Speaker 1: 15:09

Yeah, that's what you said. What does that mean?

Speaker 3: 15:11

exactly to you. Well, to me it means we either breathe life or death into people Our words have so much power into. Like I could say something to you positively, so when you think of me, I might've made you, I complimented you, or I might've made you feel positive or good about yourself, right? Or if we had a negative interaction, when you think of me, that's what you're going to remember. So that whole megaphone I've heard that too many times and it could be positive or negative, like, oh yeah, I can hear my grandma or I can hear my mom, but then oh, I can hear my mom or dad, right, and it's just whatever. It's almost like whatever voice is the loudest sometimes, and I don't mean that in a good way but like whatever they hear the most of.

Speaker 1: 15:56

So give us some advice then, for parents to be have the tongue, have life. How do we couch our comments, or do we not say what's on our mind? Do we bite our tongues all the time? How do we forge a more positive? Just catching them being good, just like we used to when they were little? Anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 16:13

Yeah, number one literally is I mean we used to when they were little. Anyway, go ahead. Yeah, number one literally is I mean we need to think before we talk.

Speaker 3: 16:20

So many of us just talk and we don't listen anymore and that's a huge piece, and I know you wanted to go into about communication too, but really and we'll get to that, yeah, cause that is such the core of everything but thinking before you talk, because if you think of it like, this is kind of a different example, but I can remember Dr Phil used to say and this would be more for, like, when your kids are younger but are you, are you tattling to help that person? Are you tattling to hurt that person? So every time you speak to someone, are you doing that to help them? Are you doing that to hurt them? And sometimes, when we hurt people, including our own kids, we're doing it out of our own pain that I don't think has been healed and, trust me, I've had to do a lot of work on myself with that. We've all got stuff.

Speaker 1: 17:02

Can you use an example of tattling for good and tattling for bad for our adult kids?

Speaker 3: 17:07

Yeah, so for example, like if you are, if you catch them doing something, like you had said earlier, if you catch them doing something good and not like in a mother child way, because we're talking about adult children and maybe older teens or whatnot but if you catch them, just let them know that you're proud of them. Just reinforce the good and try to stay away from the negative, because we can always take a negative and turn it to good. Right, give us an example. So if you were to say, if you were to catch your child let's say they're living at home and they don't get up in the morning, you go in the room and you're like see, I told you, look at that. This is the third day in a row. You haven't gotten up. What am I going to do with you? You're worthless, you're this, you're that because some parents talk to their kids that way and, first of all, depending on the age we're talking about here, but if we're talking about adult children, in my opinion you shouldn't even be waking them up. They're old enough to make that choice. So that, right, there is an example of how stay in your own lane.

Speaker 3: 18:13

I know that, like in that situation, it's hard because they're in your home. It'd be different if they had their own place and they weren't getting up for work and you didn't know about it, right, so it's a little bit harder, but at the same time, it's not your responsibility. I work a lot on self-responsibility and what is what is the parent's responsibility at this point in the game? As a parent, our roles shift and too many of us including myself, I didn't shift that role at a younger teen age and start letting them make mistakes while they're still under my roof, where you can guide them and help them. So many kids are stifled. And then they go off to college and they start. They go crazy because they get. They're like I've got freedom, I've got freedom, but nobody's there to rein them in and guide them. That makes perfect sense.

Speaker 2: 18:58

You have to give them a long leash to kind of mess things up while they're under your and while the consequences for the most part are small, as opposed to once they are adults making those decisions. Do they even know what consequences are and how you deal with that?

Speaker 1: 19:17

Let's go through. I read that one blog post and that's the one I want to concentrate on. I think it's the one called Effective Strategies for Healing and Strengthening Relationships with Our Adult Children, and we're going to focus on the strengthening part. One of the first things you mentioned is effective communication. How can we effectively communicate without feeling judgy? Because I think they do hear things differently. We try so hard and we've got to round our corner in when we're talking to them, and it does take work. A lot of parents of adult kids that I talk to say well, I'm their parent, I can say whatever I want, and I think to myself no, you better think twice.

Speaker 3: 19:54

I know, I know it's almost like an ownership thing that I think some people feel when they're an infant yeah, that's, it's 100% you. You have to do that, but then we have to outgrow that. As far as communication, I think one of the biggest things that I don't see moms doing that I teach repeatedly is realizing that your kids have a perspective too. But starts up here, so you and I we could be in the same room. We have this, we're in the same conversation, things were said, done, whatever. You have your perception of what happened and they have theirs. So that's usually when some of the collision happens is because they think oh see, you don't understand, you don't listen to me, because sometimes the mom or dad would be so hard pressed to say, well, no, that's not how it happened, and they might be right, but it doesn't matter, it's not about being right, it's about okay, that was my perception of what happened and your perception is your reality, right? So the child could say well, no, I heard mom say X, y, z and you could be like well, I know, I didn't, that's not how I meant it. Well, that's in their mind. There's that megaphone, maybe, maybe, and having that memory of what that conversation looked like.

Speaker 3: 21:15

And sometimes it's those. I don't want to say small, because they're not small, but the problem is when they compound. That's when estrangement happens. A lot of it. There's lots of reasons, but we have to know that we don't have to agree with them, them we don't have to think like them, but we have to, in my opinion, honor their perception of whatever it is. If you want to have a relationship with them, if you don't want to have a relationship with them, then you, you know, carry on like it. But if you want to change that seriously because I just see it so much, it just breaks my heart. It's sometimes, if you're, if they're willing to have a conversation with you, and you change the way you communicate, it's much, it just breaks my heart. It's sometimes, if you're, if they're willing to have a conversation with you, and you change the way you communicate, it's amazing how that solves problems.

Speaker 1: 22:00

If something like that happened and you're in the room and they perceive it differently and they get angry and you don't want to go into? He said. She said, I imagine what's your response. You know, I'm so glad to hear your perspective. It gives me a new understanding of this conversation, or what would be my response to get out of that, not have to prove my point but leave me with some self-respect.

Speaker 3: 22:22

Right. Well, usually many times, right after that conversation or during that conversation, some it gets heated and someone leaves. So when you come back together, because it may not happen at that moment, sometimes that's good. People need to calm down and whatever. But when you come back together, another thing that I would say is make sure that it's a good time for both of you.

Speaker 3: 22:45

It may sound silly, but a lot of times moms I see, will and I used to do the same thing I just assume, like this is a good time for me, so let's just have this conversation.

Speaker 3: 22:55

They may not be in the headspace for it, they are not in the mood for it, they're not prepared, so then they react and it just starts all over again. But also a lot of our kids would prefer to text through some of these things, and I know that might not be our motive. Most, you know, moms, that's not our preferred mode, but sometimes you know I mean, I've seen moms do text, I've seen moms do email and it gives you an option to pause, where it's not so difficult to bite your tongue because you're not face to face and you can really really think through your responses and you can hear their responses by reading them and really thinking about them and like, okay, well, okay, I get that, you know. Or even if you don't get it, and like, okay, well, okay, I get that, you know. Or even if you don't get it, it's okay. I think so many times and also like society, culture, we have to be right, we don't have to be right.

Speaker 1: 23:50

I think that's the critical thing, because I'm a little bit. I have to be right and I've really learned that because usually I'm not Right. Yeah, that's a really good point. So when you open up that conversation again, how would you open up the conversation after you both stormed out for fear of they left really mad at you. They might not want to hear from you. How do you open that conversation again?

Speaker 3: 24:10

I think the best way to is to ask them. However you're going to communicate with them is ask them to schedule that time. When is a good time for us to sit down? Maybe it's not in the same place that the fight happened, so maybe it's not at home. Do you want to go to coffee? Do you want to whatever? Find a time place that works. I think it's crucial that, even though, like in this case, we're talking about adult children yeah, always adult children. Yeah, okay, even though you're an adult and the child's an adult, we're still mom. I feel like we need to set the stage, even if we were the one that was wrong or maybe we weren't wrong, but we still. I feel like it's our responsibility because we're the parent, and not in a hierarchy way, but just like a respect, way to honor them and just be like okay, I want to hear what you have to say.

Speaker 1: 24:55

I agree with that. I think we've said this before take the high road. Don't become a little kid In many ways, even though they're adult kids, sometimes that interaction does become parent-child and I think it is our job to take the high road when we can. And it's hard sometimes because you're used to being in charge and you're no longer in charge. They're in charge of themselves.

Speaker 2: 25:16

The other thing with texting or email that you brought up is that you also, as you're reading back what you're writing, sometimes you get why they responded the way they did, and that also creates another opening for you to say you know what? I need to hear you out because I can see where you heard this. I think it's a great tool.

Speaker 1: 25:43

One of our interviews and I tell everyone to listen to her, dr Susan Heitler she always says agree and I agree, and the minute they hear I agree, it backs everyone down. So even if you have a completely different opinion, you say I agree, and I'd love to discuss that more. I think her example was your kid says I hated the way you raised me. You weren't a good parent. You guys got divorced. You ignored me. Whatever it might be, I agree, it's really difficult to raise children. I'd love to hear more about what you're thinking about rather than. I tried my best, you know, blah, blah, blah, and that's really a lot of what you're saying. You have to take the high road.

Speaker 3: 26:23

The defenses right.

Speaker 1: 26:25

The second factor you mentioned are differing values. Now, this is a hard one. How do you bite your tongue when you watch your children choose paths so different from yours, so different than how they were raised? We just accept and bite our tongues.

Speaker 3: 26:41

Yeah, that is hard. It gets your heart, your mother's heart, your father's heart. It can break your heart Absolutely. I went through a lot of this myself too, but we raise our kids with values that are important to us, that we think are important, right, Obviously, that we think are positive, or we likely wouldn't have raised them that way, Whether we were right, wrong or indifferent. That's just that's what we chose. That's our parental obligation is to try to raise them up well. So what happens?

Speaker 3: 27:12

What I see is the values change because of a lot of it is the culture, a lot of it's society. I feel like there's less value than there used to be. It's almost like they don't value morals as much not all, and a lot of it. Addiction has a lot to do with it. I think you know we always talk about drugs and alcohol, but I work with a lot of moms who also have their sons mostly sons, not that there couldn't be daughters, but gaming addictions Ooh, I never thought about that. Yeah, yeah, One of the biggest mistakes is whatever value and I'm not talking about addiction here, but they're differing values. Like you say, when do you bite your tongue, Honestly, if you want to have a relationship until they're ready to talk about it, want to have a relationship until they're ready to talk about it. We have to agree to disagree there, because otherwise the family is going to be tore apart, Because if you don't, then it's just going to be constant chaos, right?

Speaker 3: 28:11

I truly believe I see a lot of moms make the mistake of well, I did not raise them that way. I don't agree with that. They want to cut the child off. Well, you have a choice. You can do that if that's what you want to do, or you have to love them through it, Cause a lot of these are phases I've seen it as in a phase and also I also believe that you raise children a certain way and if it's positive, right.

Speaker 3: 28:36

If it's a good, healthy, like, a lot of times they come back to it. They're trying to seek them their own identity out and figure out who they are, and they don't want us to impose on them exactly what they should believe or what they what they like. Or mom said, I always like pizza. Well, maybe I don't like pizza. Just as an example, they're just so tired of parents telling them how they should act, what they should say, where they should work, where they should go to school, all the things. So, honestly, loving them where they're at, no matter what it is, is golden. It really is, Because as soon as they feel judged by you, they're gone.

Speaker 2: 29:14

I agree on the phases, that these are phases and even from the time they're tiny all the way as adults I'm seeing that continue to play out, where they've got some idea in their head that they're holding strong to. And six months down the road that softened a little bit and the next thing, you know, not really there anymore.

Speaker 1: 29:36

And I think if you fight it it might not soften as much, because they're going to put their arms up. They don't want to be us and did you want to be your parent? No, you want to forge your own way and we have to give them some space to forge their own way.

Speaker 2: 29:50

That goes into a little bit of the life transitions.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Yeah, let's move to that yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Who they, who they choose to be with. It's that same idea, Like if I embrace the person that they've chosen, regardless of how I feel, then they are forced to have to look at that relationship themselves in a different way. And so you know you talk about, like the altered family dynamics. Can you tell us more about that and what our role is to help support them during these changes? And not just, not just dating, but you know, marriage and birth and divorce?

Speaker 1: 30:22

Well, divorce and divorce, I mean, that's another thing. They're going through a divorce, they lose their job. We don't want to say, well, you were sleeping in all the time, you never got there on time. How do we support Right?

Speaker 3: 30:34

Always bumps in the road Always bumps in the road. As far as the marriage piece, like we get to choose who we marry. Like our parents didn't decide who we married. They may have been happy about it or maybe not. They may have said something or maybe not. But one thing that I think is crucial is a lot of times parents will say oh, I didn't like, I said, I didn't raise them that way. Well, we are the biggest influence on our children through grade school. We're not the biggest influence anymore. Our children through grade school, then their peers are not the biggest influence anymore. There's a lot of louder influences now, including social media and all of that that they have to navigate so we can instill the values as best we can. And then what we need to do, in my opinion, is support them in the way that they need. What we need to do, in my opinion, is support them in the way that they need. So ask them.

Speaker 3: 31:23

We assume as moms that, well, this relationship is not going to be good for her or him, so we need to make a plan. How is she going to get out of this? All you're going to do is divide your family and again loving them through it. You don't have to agree and it's really around asking them. Just come right out and ask them I know this is a difficult time for you. Maybe they're having marriage troubles and you just want to jump right in and fix as best you can. What if we just ask them, like I know this is a hard time. How can I help you? How can I support you? What do you need from me? They'll tell you. If they don't, as long as they don't feel judged you. What do you need from me? They'll tell you if they don't, as long as they don't feel judged it really go back to that.

Speaker 2: 32:08

I have a little bit of a question on this that just popped into my head. When there are other siblings and this kind of situation comes up, how do you support the siblings who may agree with you and want to change the situation so badly? I mean, do you say to them you know what I'm suggesting, that you bite your tongue, right, or do you just really stay out of it?

Speaker 3: 32:28

I mean have the other siblings stay out of it or bite their tongue.

Speaker 2: 32:32

Yeah, yeah, because when the siblings see what you're seeing and they're worried about their brother or their sister, how do you also support them through these life transitions, when their their fears of losing their sibling are pretty prominent? Yeah, how do you support them?

Speaker 3: 32:55

I think it's the same way as in what you're doing, Although the siblings sometimes not always, but they have a different relationship that's what I was thinking Brother or sister than you have. You kind of have to leave it up to them.

Speaker 1: 33:09

Right, I wouldn't get involved. That's their relationship. I mean, it'd be terrible if they became estranged because of it, but that's their journey. So I really like this part on aligning expectations, because this is a big one. Your kid's born and they're going to be president or CEO or they're going to you know. All of a sudden they aren't living up to everything that you thought they were going to be. Now I always say to people where you're not CEO, you're not president. Why do we have these over exaggerated expectations of our children?

Speaker 3: 33:41

One of my favorite topics. It reminds me of the Hallmark movies. If you watch Hallmark, where the dad wants the son to be the CEO of his, of the family company and he wants to go farm out in the Midwest or something, and he's like, dad, I don't want to own that. And then there's this big strife. But then once the dad or mom sits and listens to the kid at the end and they're like oh, I didn't know, your heart wasn't in it. Well, why didn't you just tell me? Well, I tried because they weren't listening. Yeah, they weren't listening. So I don't know.

Speaker 3: 34:11

I always think of that because we have these expectations. There are expectations of, like you said, be president or be the you president, or take over the family business, and a lot of that is different cultures to have that where there's these very high expectations of doing certain things. I've been honored to work with women from a lot of different cultures. They've had to make the decision to break through some of that if they wanted a relationship, because we're all humans, right, there's still that pull and so it doesn't matter where we come from. I really think that our expectations have to align with where the reality is when we have these super high expectations where our kids are struggling, but yet we still have this high expectation of president. Maybe they're they're dabbling with drugs and we still have the high expectation. Well, why are you not enrolling in college? And they're just struggling, trying to get through addiction. Sometimes it's culture, sometimes it is financial, sometimes it's just more of an image.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Yeah, I think sometimes it's what your friends think.

Speaker 3: 35:17

Yeah, keeping up with the Joneses right when you sit down with friends, friends.

Speaker 1: 35:20

The first thing they say is what are your kids doing exactly?

Speaker 2: 35:24

we need a new response to that, yeah, we do need a new response to that, I actually just you just say that you know what, they're happy and they're healthy, and that's all I need to know absolutely, and you know, and there's same thing when, when a mom is is having trouble with their child, and whether they're estranged or it's just rocky.

Speaker 3: 35:42

that is something that I always teach too. It's like whether it's a holiday family get together or a family reunion or a wedding, or you're someplace and everyone's like, oh, how's Susie? Well, it just makes you want to break down. You have to have that one line answer and you're going to have some people that are intrusive and just want to gossip. You don't owe those people anything. That's my opinion. You don't. You have to keep your circle small. Who's going to love you through this, help you through this without judgment, because the last thing you need is judgment If you're trying to heal your part in this, because we all play a part. So, absolutely. It's funny you say that, denise, because you're like oh, how's Susie doing? Or how are your kids? What are they up to? People always refer to the job. What do they do? Always.

Speaker 1: 36:28

Or they'll say are they married or whatever, but usually it's the job. What are they doing? Where are they living? Always.

Speaker 3: 36:35

Right, but but just having that one line answer. Or, like you said, kirsten, she's doing really good, she's loving living in Montana and she, she's happy, she's thriving period. You don't have to go on.

Speaker 1: 36:52

Yeah, it makes me sad when they were little and you're struggling with potty training. It's too bad. We can't be honest, because there'd be a lot of support that mothers and fathers could give each other If you could say he's found this job, he really doesn't like it, we really got into drugs, we're working on it, he's in rehab and you don't feel like a failure.

Speaker 3: 37:07

Like you said, the reason you're great at what you do is because you've been through it and that's why I have my group exactly what you just said because they go to their circle or the people around them and there's just judgment, because people just like anything else. If you haven't been through something, it's just hard to understand.

Speaker 2: 37:22

Yeah, are there some specific things that you suggest to parents that they absolutely should not do like a no-go zone?

Speaker 3: 37:30

Don't be a one topic parent. What we tend to do is that when there's any type of struggle, we tend to focus on the struggle, whether it's a job, whether it's drugs, whether it's drugs, whether it's a bad relationship, whatever the case may be because we, as moms, we just always want the answers and we want to help.

Speaker 3: 37:47

So we focus on that one thing and I'm like, oh, you just talk about everything, but and you'll be amazed at how they open up they don't come around because when they feel that judgment and they're like, oh my gosh, she's going to bring that up again, right, she's going to bring that up again, right, she's going to bring that up again. I hear it all the time, even with these adult kids. If there's a real rocky relationship or maybe even estrangement, and they just start to come back together, we don't bring up the past right away. Let's reunite and see where each other are at right now before we even bring up any of that, and let's be discerning about what really does need to be brought up again, because not everything does you also?

Speaker 1: 38:24

talk about self-care, mothers tend to think about themselves last. Do you have a couple pieces of advice how a mother or a father can put themselves first and take care of themselves?

Speaker 3: 38:35

You're so right. That's one of the first things, like in the first phase of what I do when I coach. Self-care is right in there and some people are like I don't really want to do that right now, but if you don't, you can't control this.

Speaker 1: 38:48

She's pointing to her mind those of you that are listening to the audio. She said you can't control this, and she's pointing to her mind.

Speaker 3: 38:56

You can't control your thoughts. If your body's not healthy, right, even if it's just walking, you don't have to go out and run a marathon, but even if it's just walking, or whatever you like to do, find something. Find one thing type of exercise that works for you. It doesn't have to be what your friend does. Just figure out what you can be consistent with and do it and get outside in nature. It starts there, because I'm a firm believer that even when we are in self-care, when we're having a thought, we're ruminating on something that's going wrong, we need to stop what we're doing, we need to breathe and we need to move, and that means remove yourself from the environment. So, if you're sitting in your office, get out of there, get outside, walk around the house, whatever you have time to do, but literally remove yourself because it's amazing, and then start speaking life into yourself. Start speaking life into your daughter or your son in the situation, cause we can focus on, like we said, the negative or the positive.

Speaker 3: 39:55

But self-care is also accountability. Find somebody that you can be accountable with and create some short-term goals. It doesn't have to be this huge thing, because there's so many things that moms are working through during this difficult season, they may think self-care is not that important, but it's number one. Outside of having a support system, it's number one. That's where we start. It allows you to do the rest of the work, because without it it's very difficult to function. It helps you get out of bed.

Speaker 1: 40:25

When I think of self-care, I'm thinking oh, I got to sign up for a massage. I have to. But you're right, just stop breathe and take a walk. Yep, that's great. Before we get into our final takeaways, is there anything we've missed? Our audience is all parents of adult children. Any other tidbits of advice that we haven't asked about that you thought I really need to get this out there.

Speaker 3: 40:46

Another key point that I see a lot that I work with moms on is not giving advice. We do tend to give a lot of advice to our kids out of love, right, we're just being mom. That whole way of being needs to change. Don't get me wrong. It depends on your child and, trust me, I do this now even more than ever, and I do it with my kids that I didn't have any problems with. When they start telling me something, I say okay, wait a minute, do you want me to just listen or did you want my advice? I have one that will say I want your advice, and I've got another one that says just listen. Okay, are they all girls? You have all girls, girls. Yeah, they're all different. They have different personalities and to honor that, try not to give the advice, even though I know your head is full of all this great wisdom.

Speaker 2: 41:40

They just don't want to hear it, unless they ask for it, and then that gives you permission, yeah, but that's tough.

Speaker 2: 41:47

I mean, then you're, then you're on the hook, right. Then you then, whatever you say, better be really on point, right. Well, I think it's fair for us to say, when they do ask, even even when they do ask for advice, to to say, okay, this is a whole different world. I can only really tell you my advice based on my experience. It may or may not match. There's a lot of pitfalls and some successes that can be had there in terms of giving advice, but it's hard, it's really hard.

Speaker 3: 42:18

Asking them prefacing it with. That has really worked for me and my clients. They use that with their kids now and it has changed the dynamic because they know mom's not going to go off and start offering advice. So they're more apt to come to you and talk Right, because they know that you're going to stop and ask they can voice more, whether it's getting the advice or really allowing them to speak more, kind of both really, and they learn to expect it from you, and so when they call you, they know exactly what it is they're looking for.

Speaker 2: 42:50

That's helpful too.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Absolutely. This has been great, and I would love you to leave our listeners with two takeaways that you want them to remember from this discussion today.

Speaker 3: 43:01

You're on. Number one is take care of you first, and not in a selfish way, not at all. But if you don't take care of you and you are on a rocky road or you're estranged or you're worried that you're going to be, you not taking care of yourself first is going to hinder your relationship with your child, because then we're not. We're not our best right. We need to stay at our best. We can only control ourselves, and so we need to take care of the person that we can control. Number two is the self responsibility that I teach, which is stay in your own lane. You can control you, but if you're both in your own lane and ideally working on yourselves and however that looks for you, quite often I see relationships being able to come back together quite easily when we just take a step back and realize, okay, I've got to stay in my own lane, take care of me, and things kind of fall into place.

Speaker 1: 43:56

Thank you so much. This has been really great. Sally, I'm so glad we found you and I love the shorts on YouTube. They're so great, you have so many topics and I hope our listeners will tune in. Check her website at sallyharriscom, right, sally-harris? Sally-harriscom, I'm so sorry. We'll put it in our episode notes and there you have a link to your YouTube, right.

Speaker 3: 44:22

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 44:22

Sounds good. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, that's a wrap. Today's guest had so much to share with us and she comes from a real place. I loved that. I loved that she is. She's not a licensed therapist, but she has lived this, and so the way this comes across is very relatable. I think a lot of our listeners are really going to connect with the things she said, even though we may have heard them before. They're going to connect in a much different way and hopefully find a lot of value in some of the things we discussed.

Speaker 1: 44:53

Absolutely agree with you. I loved it and I want to remind everyone to visit sally-harriscom. You can link to her YouTubes there she's got a lot of blog posts. Sometimes reading it over and over again helps you choose the language and see the language that you should be using. I also love the two. To tango, people have to really understand. You don't always have to be right and I love that. Anyway, I wanna thank Connie Goren-Fisher, our audio engineer, who always makes us look and sound much better than we do. I should say my dog was barking a little bit and I think, because we're on Zoom, you're going to hear that, so I apologize, but that's the way life is. And visit our website BiteYourTonguePodcastcom. If the spirit moves you, we'd love you to buy us a virtual cup of coffee or two or three and remember throughout your life your relationship with your adult kids. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.