Bite Your Tongue: The Podcast
Did you ever expect being the parent of an adult child would be so difficult? Introducing "Bite Your Tongue," a look at exploring that next chapter in parenting: building healthy relationships with adult children. From money and finance to relationships and sibling rivalry, we cover it all. Even when to bite your tongue! Join your host Denise Gorant as she brings together experts, parents and even young adults to discuss this next phase of parenting. We will chat, have some fun and learn about ourselves and our kids along the way! RSSVERIFY
Bite Your Tongue: The Podcast
Your Adult Child's Boundaries are not a Rejection of You
Have you ever sent an impulsive text when feeling rejected by your adult child? That desperate "What did I do wrong?" message that you later regretted? You're not alone. The relationship between parents and their adult children exists on a delicate continuum—from deep connection to painful estrangement and everything in between.
Dr. Rachel Glik, relationship specialist and author of "A Soulful Marriage," joins us to unpack the complex dynamics of parent-adult child relationships. With remarkable insight, she reveals how our own emotional needs can unknowingly sabotage these precious connections. "We can't be a parent when we're depending on our child," she explains, highlighting how our generation's child-centered parenting style paradoxically created more self-centered adults.
The conversation delves into practical wisdom about building emotional maturity—that essential capacity to hold your own pain while simultaneously creating space for your child's perspective. Dr. Glik shares illuminating examples from her own experience as a mother and grandmother, demonstrating how to navigate differences without becoming emotionally reactive. She offers specific guidance on welcoming your child's partner, setting healthy boundaries, and finding the balance between independence and connection.
Perhaps most powerfully, Dr. Glik reframes relationship challenges as opportunities for profound personal growth. "Put energy into seeing what you're experiencing as happening for you, not to you," she advises. This shift in perspective transforms painful interactions into gateways for self-awareness and healing. Whether you're feeling distant from your adult children or simply want to strengthen your connection, this conversation provides compassionate, practical tools for moving forward with both wisdom and love.
The site and podcast do not contain any medical/health information or advice. The medical/health information is for general information and educational purposes only and is not suitable for professional device. Accordingly, before taking any actions based upon such information, we encourage you to consult with the appropriate professionals. We do not provide any kind of medical/health advice. THE USE OF OR RELIANCE OF ANY INFORMATION CONTAINED ON THE SITE OR PODCAST IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
We can't be a parent when we're depending on our child, even as an adult. We're here to nurture their unique individuality in the world and nurture the connection. But you can nurture the connection in a balanced way, even with a lot of differences. Especially when they feel supported, they're much more willing to find that common ground.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, when they feel supported, they're much more willing to find that common ground. Speak with experts, share heartfelt stories and get timely advice addressing topics that matter most to you. Get ready to dive deep and learn to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children and, of course, when, to bite our tongues. So let's get started. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Bite your Tongue, the podcast. I promised you, my listeners, that we will be bringing you only the best interviews, and today is another one.
Speaker 2:On our last interview with Dr Gibson, I shared the joy of welcoming my first grandchild in April. Spending three weeks with my daughter and her husband was mostly magical, though there were moments when I felt I may have overstayed my welcome. I have sort of a strong personality. Anyway, during my visit, I came across a compelling article in the Wall Street Journal by Dr Rachel Glick, titled what I Tell Mothers who Feel Rejected by their Adult Children. While I didn't feel rejected, the article resonated with me, prompting me to invite Dr Glick to join us on this podcast and for this conversation. She's a relationship specialist. It always seems these relationship specialists, whatever the relationships they are dealing with, are the best guests on this podcast. She's a licensed professional counselor in St Louis with a doctorate in counseling and a master's in psychology. She's been featured on NBC News, has published article in the Wall Street Journal, psychology Today and CNBC. One producer said and I love this Dr Glick gets to the heart of what we deal with every day, our relationships with ourself and with others. And remember, dr Gibson talked a lot about that too, our relationship with ourselves, and that's what we all need, because talked a lot about that too, our relationship with ourselves. And that's what we all need, because, of course, each of us, at one time or another, have stepped over the line with our adult children. So let's get started. Welcome, dr Glick. I'm so happy to have you with us.
Speaker 2:I was so taken by your May article in the Wall Street Journal. There was a headline and then there was a subheading and it said I witness a lot of pain as a therapist, but there is nothing like the sorrow of a mother estranged from her child. And I feel like estrangement can be a lot of things. It doesn't completely mean that your child's just not talking to you. I think mothers, and probably fathers, feel this pain even if they're not estranged, as their adult children are setting more boundaries as they pull away and start their own lives, as some of their life choices are completely different than anything they were raised with. So I don't want to stick completely with estrangement. I want to talk mostly about relationship with estrangement, in and out of it. Does that make sense.
Speaker 1:I think it's very insightful because the experience is much more on a continuum. There's this sense of rejection, of letting go, of feeling cut off in a certain way. Even if you're close and connected in other ways, you can still have this feeling of loss and of fear that you will lose the connection as well.
Speaker 2:I think that's so true. So I want to start with you telling us how you got involved in working in this area, and I want you to share a little bit about your book, because I didn't mention in the intro and I'd like everyone to know about your new book.
Speaker 1:Yes, people start to come to me based on the need, and the need started growing with. That's how I became a relationship counselor and that's what the basis of a soulful marriage is the four pillars to thriving in your relationship or healing your relationship and that was based on the need, was there. The couples just were coming, and then a similar trend has been going on in the past 30 years and increasing more recently, with adult children and or the parent or both of them needing help to navigate their relationship. I remember being much more careful with my own children as they were becoming grown and we welcomed new their partners into the family, because I watched so many ruptures. Based on how that was handled, I started writing blogs about it. I have a before I wrote for the Wall Street Journal. I wrote a few things as well in my own personal blog.
Speaker 1:I go on Fox 2 in St Louis, and so I was doing several segments and they just got picked up by the algorithms and I started getting phone calls. This was maybe about eight years ago started getting phone calls from people all over the country, even all over the world, like desperate for help with it. It just became a more growing specialty and there's so much potential for growth that happens in these ruptures and so it's a passion of mine to help, partly because it's so painful and wanting to help in any way I can with the kind of pain. But I also see it as this gateway for growth that people wouldn't really pursue personal or spiritual growth if it wasn't for this pain they're in.
Speaker 2:I think that hits the nail right on the head, because I feel that when I interviewed Lindsay Gibson, she talked a lot about self-awareness and that's all about you're continuing to grow. You sort of hit your 60s or 70s and you start thinking I've done it all, but really you have to continue to develop yourself. When you're changing relationships with whoever it is around you, when your husband retires, when your children marry, everything changes in all of those kinds of ways. So I love this idea of it's a gateway. You feel this pain and you can't just sit on it. You need to work on it. So you said something recently and this wasn't something I was even going to talk about, but you said when your kids started taking on spouses and people you talk to and the way things could be ruptured. When that starts happening, tell us what you think are the best ways. When your child brings home someone that's going to be their new spouse, welcoming to the family, what are the ways that works and what are the ways that don't work?
Speaker 1:family. What are the ways that works and what are the ways that don't work? It's a very, very sensitive subject because you have to also, you know, not be totally on the side. If you're concerned about something, you also have a place as a parent to maybe share a concern. But generally speaking, you want to start with curiosity and have an awareness of empathy for what it's like to come into a family. Try to remember what it was like for you if you were one of those in that stage of your life, so that you can really make the person feel welcome. That is the main thing that you're happy that they're there, you're interested in the person and that you also respect a gradual shift in that person, kind of becoming more important to your child than you are in terms of. Don't assume that because you've always done it this way as a family, you have to factor in now, especially as the partner becomes more part of their lives, you know how does that work for them also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's very, very true. My kids tell me I act I'm too curious, I ask too many questions, and I think the one thing you said that really resonated with me is that person becomes more important in their life than you are, and that's hard as a parent of an adult child, and it's not all or nothing.
Speaker 1:Like I was saying at the beginning of this particular question. It also isn't to be so laissez-faire that you don't have conversations about it, but you really want to have those conversations to ask them what they think, how this might look down the road, what is important to you and how can you see yourself growing with this person, right?
Speaker 2:that's really good.
Speaker 1:Are there things in your relationship that you do think you would want to talk about that might be a potential clash in the future, but do you want to also be a sounding board? And the more accepting and less judgmental and less influencing we are of them, that we communicate, that we trust them to make good decisions, then they tend to feel more comfortable to process with us.
Speaker 2:And that makes sense. That's a hard, hard thing to do.
Speaker 1:It is extremely hard and each child is unique. So, like my firstborn, you have to wait for her to do. It is extremely hard and each child is unique. So, like my firstborn, there's like you have to wait for her to ask you know like I'm the same way with my firstborn but my second one, I can almost say anything. Exactly, I think that is kind of common All right.
Speaker 2:So something you said earlier about the increase in this and you say in your article that shifts in how we talk about mental health the whining divides in politics and culture seem to be inspiring a growing number of young people to drop any relationship they see as toxic. So I'd like you to expand on that. And what's toxic?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's like a word that we hear a lot, Right, that it's not growth promoting, it doesn't. You don't feel validated in the relationship where you feel that you know it's emotionally distressing and everybody's unique with the level that they can tolerate of that. It can be like triggering. If there's, you know, trauma or of messaging you got growing up that made you feel less than or unloved or not right with who you are. Then it also being in an environment environment if any criticism can be received by the adult child as more reminder of shame and feeling less than, and so that becomes a toxic environment. It can be the way that person handles their emotions the parent there's a lot of parents who unfortunately have intergenerational trauma and they have their own kind of harmful ways of trying to cope with their emotions that they are having trouble regulating and that can come across as very and violence a little strong, but like really loud and boisterous and scary and out of control. That can feel toxic.
Speaker 2:Why are we seeing such an increase in this?
Speaker 1:I think that there's more like anecdotally increases. I don't think the research yet is showing this, but they're working. I think they're going to see it the more the research unfolds. I think the culture of therapy has a lot of pluses, but there's also a shadow side of therapy. But a lot of the pluses of therapy is that a lot of adult children are normalized to go to therapy and they reparent themselves and they individuate and they differentiate and they start to have somebody hold space for them, for them to you know, good therapy helps you parent yourself, reparent yourself, but you have somebody who is helping you to understand what it looks like to be treated in a way that feels good and what healthy boundaries are in a relationship, and empowering you to make decisions in your life that feel good and what healthy boundaries are in a relationship, and empowering you to make decisions in your life that feel good, for you to be your own unique individual, whereas a lot of families are trying to still make people be the way you want them to be.
Speaker 1:That's human nature, because we want to have that closeness and you think it's the right thing, and there's a lot of lack of self-awareness. So I think therapy is a big factor in this. That is kind of a tipping point of individuals adult children in particular realizing that okay, there is another way and I can choose my life. I can choose what feels good for me. I don't have to keep accepting behavior or culture or scenarios that don't serve me well. And then the shadow side is it can go too far, in my opinion, and it makes you more self-focused and not considering the context of how it affects everyone else and the grace and the mercy that we're all on a journey. Sometimes therapy can overemphasize personal pain and overlook the context of the whole system and the humanness and the fragility and the vulnerability of every human being.
Speaker 2:I love that because I see that a lot. It's a lot of the me generation and I think our generation of parenting also contributed to that, because we were all about their feelings and I've said this in other episodes and I think we're wondering why this is happening, but that's exactly how we parented.
Speaker 1:It's so true. So it's a therapy culture is positive, but it has totally. We have more child-centered families now, which has some positives started in the 60s and it's grown, but it makes kids more like self-centered, and I don't mean this judgmentally, it's an affliction we've given them.
Speaker 1:I remember once when we studied the wisdom of Kabbalah my husband and I and that's where we learned a lot of these tools to help kids feel empowered and have a sense of earnership at a young age and respect their parents not because we need the respect, but because they get their energy from their source. And I remember that there was a jazz concert that my son was going to have that they changed the date, which then became a conflict with an event I was hosting to help other people learn, you know, how to improve their lives, and I felt such a pull. I was being advised by my teacher, my Kabbalah teacher, that no, this is an opportunity to teach, that it's not just about them, that they can actually help support you as well. I mean, he was a teenager, a young teen, and I saw how much we can actually teach children selfishness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we really can. I think we've done a lot of that. So in your article, I love the story you told about this one mother, Marjorie. I think we all could relate to Marjorie she was feeling distant from her son and suddenly she started doing all these impulsive texts. I didn't sleep last night. I'm really worried about you not talking to me. What did I do? That was wrong? You know, blah, blah, blah. And there's not a mother in the world that hasn't wanted to send those texts.
Speaker 2:It's the holding back. You talk about strength, and I want to get into this whole place of strength. How do we stop ourselves? We're hurting so bad. Maybe they've said something on the phone that was either hurtful or didn't resonate. You don't want to call back, but you want to say what's going on. But mothers have this kind of you know, let go go to. So how do we build this?
Speaker 1:strength. Yes, and it's really about being in two places at the same time. It's a tall order to ask of ourselves as mothers, because there's such a deep soul to soul connection that there is an intertwining of self on some level even more with mothers. Many people report this in lots of different approaches. So, yes, we feel this oneness and deep connection and sense of purpose and as part of who we are, and then all of a sudden we have to start letting go, which is like unthinkable, like what do you mean? But one of the things that is helpful is to start, even when they're younger, if you can, to start detaching and have your own sense of self and catch yourself with how often you're thinking about them or worrying about them or basing your well-being on whether they're okay with you or in general, and so that's kind of a slow trickle have other things, other energy you bring into your life that's independent of them, and then from there, I think it's also really important to get support, whether it's in therapy or a spiritual path or friendships or reading or listening to this podcast that you really start developing more. It can be called emotional maturity that sounds a little cold, but where you start to expand your capacity to hold pain and embrace pain and be in the discomfort of pain. And because we are such a, we have two parts of us. We have an ego and we have, like, a higher part of us. You can call the core self or the soul, but the ego is all about instant gratification.
Speaker 1:If I'm feeling uncomfortable, I'm going to fix it now and that gets us into a lot of trouble so building and cultivating our capacity, the muscle for sitting with it. I'm uncomfortable right now. I like to focus for me on my body. What is my body feeling? Oh, I feel this sinking inside. I think you know. Maybe it's shame, maybe I feel less than, or I'm afraid I'm going to be alone.
Speaker 1:Like we can go to such irrational places with one, like funny ending to a phone call, or like leaving, needing to leave early, or it isn't what I expected, or a change in plans from our children because it didn't work for them and we had this idea of how this whole event was going to go. It can create irrational, like trauma almost, or irrational fears and emotional pain. Don't judge yourself for that, but you want to listen to what is? It Be curious, like there's the story and then there's what is the story about? Give me an example. Give me an example. Something is coming up in my with that just happened. Okay, my, I have a grandson now, so it's similar to you, right, he's two, so I'm a little bit more seasoned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're much further, much further ahead than I am.
Speaker 1:Yes. So we were invited them to come with us to go to you know a resort town in Michigan for the fourth and, which is unusual, that they were able to go and that you know my daughter and her wife and our grandson are going to come. Now some things have changed in their life and we're getting little messages that I don't think they're going to come. You know it's not looking like it's going to support them in their life. It's a small thing but it can feel like a big thing. That can create a lot of problems in relationships when you don't first sit with how that feels relationships, when you don't first sit with how that feels Like.
Speaker 1:I noticed that I felt sad, like I had this whole vision. I was watching other. The last time we were there I was watching other people at the beach with their families. You know I had this whole schema and how disappointing that would be for me. So I had to go through the process of taking care of that myself and not centering my feelings and my needs and expectations and putting them on my daughter when she's telling me this, especially not initially. So then I just listened.
Speaker 1:Within it's that self-awareness and that self-soothing. I honored the feeling I honored that yeah, that would be disappointing. I also honored the perspective part of me that knows like, in the scheme of things, this is normal, this is healthy and this is also probably for the good for you. Maybe it's good for you and my husband to have more time together, or maybe this is also good for me because I'm learning how to be flexible even more. And so you know, looking, just having the mindset that I'm looking for not seeing why this is happening to me, but how this is happening for me.
Speaker 2:So moving away from your own ego, really, because your own ego was hurt a little bit. My ego was hurt, yeah, and I struggle with that a lot. I just think why aren't they thinking about me? This was really hurtful.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, and things have changed. I know, when my kids were born, my mother was like right there. But when my grandson was born, they wanted space. It's so different, and so I had to deal with all of those feelings. But if I didn't work on the emotional maturity part of myself and I put my feelings and my needs and I centered myself, I would have pushed them away and it would have been selfish, it would have been hurtful to them, and then I can't be there when they do need me, because they feel unsafe to come close, because I'm going to make it about me. So, the more we can like, hold space for them and and of course, at some point yes, it's a mutual and you want to share your feelings and needs too. It's not about.
Speaker 2:How do you do that, though? I mean, I think that's the hardest thing. I don't mean to interrupt you, but, as you're saying this and I've had similar situations and I've worked on myself my emotional maturity but what I really want to say is get with the program. I'm your mother, suck it up. I'm not perfect. Remember when you said you were coming? We've put deposits down in the hotel. What?
Speaker 1:are you thinking?
Speaker 2:I mean I would never say that, but there's a part of me that wants to say what is the problem here? So when can you start saying a little bit about how you're feeling?
Speaker 1:Well, if you're in a rift and you're in a rupture, and then not at all Never.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of like. I always say like your adult child is the customer, you know, like, even in couples, like Everyone says that I can, everyone says that yes, and there's a step-by-step process. That's not forever and it's not all the way all the time. So it's really subtle, these nuances. That's why I like, that's why it's so important to have more people who understand that it's. It's not just your classic family counseling situation. There's so many nuances to this, so many.
Speaker 1:So when there's a strong rupture and it's similar with a couple either, the partner who's pulling away, just it's not fair. We have to let go of logic and justice. We have to go with just what am I being called to right now, for the sake of this relationship and for the sake of my growth? To trust that you're where you need to be. It's a choice you make, it's an axiom. You know that.
Speaker 1:Like to choose to trust that you're where you need to be, it's a choice you make, it's an axiom. You know that. Like to choose to trust that the universe is a friendly place and that, even if I don't like where I am, there's something of benefit for me and otherwise I wouldn't be here. Something to put it back into balance in myself and my whole family system and my lineage. And so you know, trying to embrace it and not blame, and trying and stop rejecting it, be in the present moment. And then, when it comes to holding space for for the one who is feeling like they need to pull away, is, first of all, as a parent. There's a lot of approaches that appreciate how we are. We always came first, we were always their source, so it's appropriate for us to hold space for them, and when there's a rupture or when we're navigating their unique individuality, we really want to overcome our ego's propensity to think that we created them for me. No, we created them for the world.
Speaker 2:That's a great line. That's a great line. So what I'm hearing here this just came to my mind you're valuing the relationship over yourself. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:And their own development and looking at what this could be for your own development. And then you're in and you have to repair. Like you know, it depends if it's, if it's like day-to-day stuff and you want to handle it appropriately. You you'd still similar, but not as extreme, where you still want to hold space and listen to them first. So tell me more about what's going on. Yeah, like, yeah, you're, I can see you have so much going on.
Speaker 1:Tell me what you're thinking and then let them know that you can hold them in a way that you're not going to make make it crowded in the room where they can't share their feelings with you because you're going to be putting yours in the room so loud that they can't even share themselves or they're going to feel guilty. You know that they're making upsetting. You want to liberate them, to live the life for them and they, paradoxically, will want to come closer to you.
Speaker 2:Can I say that one more time If?
Speaker 1:you, if they if, if, if children, and if you haven't overgiven that's another side thing that overgiving is a problem in our society but if they feel the genuine sense that you can resist the urge to make yourself the center and make it about you and what you need and you're not guilting them, and they really feel that you want what's best for their well-being, their unique path, and they feel spacious in that way, they feel safe, that they can really turn to you because you're not going to make it crowded and make too many needs in the room and not their own, then paradox is they'll feel safe with you and they're going to come to you more.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Okay, you sort of slipped something in there. I want to hear more about Too much giving. I see that all the time and I'm guilty.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 1:But I want to get to that in just a moment. Okay, all the time and I'm guilty, so I want to get to that in just a moment. Okay, I want to say is after a period of time and a shorter scale. If it's a day-to-day interaction, it's a longer scale. If you have a rupture or if there's. If there, if you're hearing some grievances, if you're noticing some like little signs of pulling away, you want to be even more careful.
Speaker 1:It becomes a little more one-sided for a while, but then eventually then you can have a more mutual relationship, like what I like with my situation with my daughter. It all happened very quickly, but she brought up again that she wasn't sure that she was going to able to come. But there was an opening that I could share a little bit about me, because it was in the context of something else, because of how much I had missed our grandson because we'd been on a different trip. I was seeing other kids on the beach and I was wanting it to be Leo and you know and so and so from there it was in like a lighter way and I said it with like a both and like I know you need to do what you need to do. But, oh my gosh, there's a part of me that will be so sad if you're not there and I just you know. But, but, but it's still left room for her to have her own to be supported. And then there's something more serious.
Speaker 1:You've had more serious things come up, but first it's still important for me to try and I'm not perfect at it, but to put her out and make sure she feels fully heard, and there's lots of tools for doing that, and it's a whole thing in its own thing in its own. And then, when you share your own perspective, you want to be careful to share it in a way that doesn't guilt them, that doesn't make them feel responsible for your feelings, but that lets them know that you're a human being too, and this is what it's like for you. And ask them, make a request for what I would like, also like. Would this work? This is what would make me feel good. So there is room for that, but you have to wait your time.
Speaker 2:So you just said I want to get to the giving, but you also just said there's a whole bunch of tools for making them feel heard. Can you share a couple of them?
Speaker 1:Actually, in my book I have chapters on this and I'm hoping to do some more writing on this subject as well, but for now, in a soulful marriage, there's four pillars, and I'm working on four pillars for healing, estrangement, but some of the same pillars will be the case, and in this case, pillar two is called growth, and that pillar is about how you use your friction to grow, but to do so, you need to learn how to communicate soulfully or communicate in a way that creates compassion and healing, and so it's a lot about empathy. It's a lot about reflecting back what you've heard communicate soulfully or communicate in a way that creates compassion and healing, and so it's a lot about empathy. It's a lot about reflecting back what you've heard. It's a lot about this emotional maturity and self-awareness that you can be with your pain in the one hand and hold space to hear another person's perspective at the same time. And there are specific tools for that, and I lay it out.
Speaker 1:I go through sample dialogues and it's one of the hardest things to do. It's like climbing Mount Everest, but we're capable of it. We really are. But it takes a tremendous commitment and you get better at it. I do it in my own merit. It takes a potential, disconnect, heaviness, like unsafe feeling, frustration, powerless feeling into breakthroughs when you can really feel heard and and create a safe environment for the deeper. What's the story really about here? It makes perfect sense with my daughter and and with my son, but even more with my daughter. She's a therapist too. So we process and so we'll have these points of friction and we're hearing each other, but we wait and we go to coffee and we'll sit down and we take turns and then eventually we start to see the things we share in common of what we're both working on and why this is in our life. Looking for the meaning, which is the sixth stage of grief, and that's an important one that you look for. Where's the growth? Where's the meaning?
Speaker 2:Okay, can we go to the too much giving?
Speaker 1:Giving. So it's kind of similar to when I gave this, told you the story about our son and the jazz concert. My inclination was to find somebody else to run the event. I have to be at every single event of my son, or he's not going to feel loved. I'm not going to. You know, I didn't want to miss it, of course either. In that moment it would have been overgiving, like that's of time, that's of energy, it's of time, energy, resources, and so the idea is that Can I ask you a question here how do you judge?
Speaker 2:So? I think of that situation as the jazz concert. Okay, Sometimes it's not going to really matter to the kid if you miss the soccer game or miss the jazz concert. But how do you judge? He's 12 years old. How old was he at this time?
Speaker 1:I think he was 15.
Speaker 2:15 years old. I think it's hard to judge what is that most meaningful experience for them, that they really want you there for, and then I think, you can make a sacrifice, but it's hard to know what that is, Because maybe at that point you chose to do the event and he later he's 24 now saying the thing that hurt me the most was you didn't come to my dinner. You weren't there because I had worked so hard on my flute or whatever it was and you chose your work over me and it still haunts me mom.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, it is case by case. I'm so glad you asked the question because it depends. I went to everything I would support his travel. He went to a camp for his percussion. I went to visit him at the camp. So my bank of goodwill was pretty high, it was pretty full. But if that happened to have been an exceptionally important event, I would have talked to him about it and I would find out how important it was to him. If it was really and I would know if it was really that important, I would have absolutely found somebody else. But in the context of the things, it was a big concert but it was just. It was another big concert out of many.
Speaker 2:Right? No, I know, I'm just thinking, not that situation in particular. But I see, particularly in our generation of parents with grandkids, with kids, oh, I'll be there, I'll bring you a meal. When do you need me to pick up the grandkid? I'll cancel everything this afternoon so I can be there for you. I'll take care of the kids for five days a week, totally forgetting about ourselves. That seems like overgiving to me too. And what's the repercussion of the overgiving?
Speaker 1:Yes and the overgiving usually starts earlier. We feel we're responsible for our children's happiness. We're not. We're here to create an environment for them to create their own and to teach them cause and effect. I learned this from studying with the Kabbalah Center Like this changed our life so much with how we parent it. So this is a lot of what we're dealing with in.
Speaker 1:Estrangement is really the effect of first of all, there's a lot of things changing in society. I don't have rapid rate, but also it's the effect of how things were handled, the dynamic at home. So overgiving can be not having them have earnership, of helping in the house and seeing that mom and dad are also humans and they need support too. Or having them earn like if they want something extra, then what can they do to earn it, and that things aren't just given to them. You want to give them the taste of transformation, the taste of putting skin in the game. It's a gift we give them Because you end up.
Speaker 1:The paradox is you start to resent the person giving to you when you don't feel that. You feel empty inside and you resent it's unconscious. But you resent the person giving to you and you think they're not giving you enough when you don't. So our job as parents is to create a sense of earnership Like enough. When you don't so, our job as parents is to create a sense of earnership. Like you know, we had our kids like doing laundry early on when we learned this, or or even though we could have afforded to buy their car insurance, we had them work so they could buy their car insurance working in the summer.
Speaker 2:Now we're in it. You know, now we're talking to parents of adult children that may have not done all of this. They messed up the whole thing. We did everything for them, we were made sure they were happy. We felt like our happiness was, or their happiness was, on our shoulders. And we see ourselves continuing this in their adult life, but feeling less and less appreciated.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, it is harder the later stage it in. It's like the fruit is already a bitter piece of fruit, but you still can make change. Families are dynamic, Life is dynamic. So you start to make little tweaks. You still need to hear them. Dynamic. So you start to make little tweaks. You still need to hear them, though you still need to hold space for them. That doesn't change. But you start to honor yourself and you start to listen first to what would be a good balance for me.
Speaker 1:What kind of grandmother or grandfather or mother or father-in-law or adult parent, parent of adult child, do I want to be, and what else in my life is important that I might be neglecting? We absolutely hurt ourselves and everyone we want to help and support when we neglect ourselves. So that's why pillar one of my book is responsibility we're responsible for our own happiness and well-being and pillar three is priority, which is prioritizing your relationship with your spouse. So both of those are relevant. With adult children you can still find your tendency. I do a lot of writing on how much we put the kids first over the marriage and we're the source, and so it's so important to nurture, for everybody's sake, that relationship.
Speaker 1:So when I was a first early grandmother, I was going above and beyond and I still like to do that, but we've tweaked it.
Speaker 1:Where I don't physically stretch myself like I did before I was getting sick, I realized that I, in desire to be this amazing grandmother and be so close. I wasn't balancing and fortunately my daughter is so supportive and she wants me to take care of myself, and so I tweaked it and I, you know you can start to make small shifts to change a dynamic little bits of it, and sometimes you might even need to explain it with reassuring statements. I call them. I have a lot of that in the book about reassuring statements. I want to be here all the time and I want to do all of it, but I realize that it's not good for me and then I will not be. I can't show up as well for you. That way your children don't think you're just like, you don't care, or you know I just this is an important time, kind of golden years, with your father and I or whoever your person is, and so you know I'm really working to balance if they're noticing a shift.
Speaker 2:That's interesting because even back at the very beginning, when we started talking about taking care of yourself and you're not responsible for your children's happiness, and you're not happy only when they are happy I mean, you're a professional, I'm a professional there's a lot of women that raise their children. The children leave and there isn't much left in their lives. Okay, and I wonder how they can help themselves, because that's a group. I really and it's not that they're weak or what they've done hasn't been marvelous and wonderful, but it feels very empty when the children leave and start developing their own lives. They're in their sixties, their seventies, and I get a lot of letters from people like this and I just don't know what to say or who to refer them to, because I feel their pain.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, it is. It is a direct causality that I see that mothers who their professional life was raising the children and taking care of the home there's often a much more difficult transition to being empty nesters and then also giving space for the. This is a, you know, there are exceptions, of course. I'm generalizing Right. Right, I'm trend, I'm showing trends, Right. Also really difficult to let go and let them go live their lives.
Speaker 1:I'm meeting with one woman. She said but my daughters are my best friends and I'm like, oh, that's already right there, Not to judge that. You start getting attached to the outcome, where you're centering your feelings and your needs. We don't realize how much we are bringing children in to think of them, to serve us. We want them to serve their lives, their soul, their world, their place in the world.
Speaker 1:So what I'm doing with this individual, this woman is slowly working on making lists of things that bring her light, that light her up, that are not about her kids. It doesn't have to be finding a new career or you know age I think she's in her 60s. Where is she not putting energy into her friendships? Because she's waiting for her daughter and that's why she's so upset that she's not wanting to live the lifestyle that she lives because she's depending on her too much. So I would take small steps to see what is in your life that you can nourish, to create more emotional independence for yourself. What lifts you up in terms of the arts or being in nature, or being with certain people, or what kind of work can you do in the world to add value to the world that fills us up so much to do that.
Speaker 2:What I'm listening to now and I want to see that I got this right in both situations. I need to work on finding awareness in myself and understanding myself and letting go of my ego when I'm talking or interacting with my adult kids. It's going to take the same amount of work for me as it is for someone who devoted their whole lives completely to their kids. Both situations take work is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:They do they do and for some, and for lots of reasons, for some that's harder than others. It could be because you had all your eggs in one basket. It could also be that you have bipolar and so you have a hard time regulating your emotions. You know, like so many factors that come into play. Or there's also we take the scheme of how we were raised and we have these expectations of how our children and I we were raised and we have these expectations of how our children, and I believe in teaching children to respect their parents, not again because we need the respect, but because they get energy from their source.
Speaker 2:And what does that mean? They get energy from their source.
Speaker 1:So we will never. They will are never the ones who came first. We always will be the ones who even if it's adoption, we were the. It was the thought that brought them to us and reared. Adoption. It was the thought that brought them to us and reared. The respect part is like anything that we appreciate. We get energy from, we get blessing from it. We get good things out of it.
Speaker 1:And so this is something that is a sensitive thing to talk to with adult children, but to the extent that they can do both at the same time establish their boundaries, but always with the sense of honoring that their parents gave them life, that whatever their parents gave them, it behooves them to appreciate that and to respect that. It's not like a religious or moral. It's literally about energy flow.
Speaker 2:I can see that with my own mother. She's gone now. How so? Well, I think there were lots of things that bothered me as I became a young adult and an older adult and with my kids, she loved me and she gave everything she had, and so, whatever she was doing, I had to work around a little bit because I honored her, I was grateful, and now that she's gone I wish I would have done more.
Speaker 1:Yes, I hear that so much. So in my work with both the parents and the adult children, it's something that I really aspire to carefully introduce. Being in those two places at the same time and sometimes it's a timing thing they need to have their own space for a while. It's developmental, they're individuating. But you have to yes, but you have to be careful not to have it go on too long, because I see a lot of people regret it. They have all these insights later as they evolve and they so wish they could have had more of a sense of balance and more closure and peace and forgiveness before they passed. So it's just a very careful, sensitive dynamic.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think something you said in your article with the change in politics and culture and everything changing so quickly, that's hard for a lot of us. They have a whole different set of rules now for the way you have to operate and it can be uncomfortable for them when you step over them and you're with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and it's important for both sides to be patient because we're learning. I've noticed my daughter soften and she's more educating now versus criticizing, and when it comes to politics and certain views that are so different, it can be helpful to really try to nourish what you do connect around. We're more complex. We're made up of many parts. We have a tendency the ego is more black and white in thinking. Duality is something more for people who keep developing and grow spiritually and emotionally. So I always try to encourage people to see if they can kind of compartmentalize a bit and just try to connect around what they can connect around and don't bring up the topics if they can't come to terms.
Speaker 2:That makes perfect sense. You mentioned and I can't remember exactly in the article how you said it, but you said that some adult children are not as interested in repairing or building the relationship, or how did you say this?
Speaker 1:More in punishment.
Speaker 2:Yes, punishment, that's exactly what you said. What does that mean?
Speaker 1:Yes. So for some I think they might stay there. But it's stages. Some are not in that stage of seeing where we're all human, and this is what I need to do for you, because it's not healthy for me. But there isn't that animosity or that blame and that anger and resentment that's dominating and wanting to like hurt them and not even consider their feelings. Some are just still in an angry stage of grief as adult children and they may also have a sense of they may have been overgiven to and think that their pain is more important than other people's pain. So that's a maturity issue too, and so I see that can happen. Hopefully is temporary and it also depends on the parent.
Speaker 1:The parent can also be that unhealthy themselves to be around, and that's the extreme cases that aren't the norm, but that does happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so sad, it is so sad and it's sad for everyone because they're hurting too, even the parent who's unwell and doing terribly harmful things. It's still hurting, but they just they don't have the emotional capacity to see that. But when it comes to the punishing part, sometimes it's a stage where you're just so mad. You just want them to hurt because you're hurting and you just can't believe that they did that to you or said that to you or can't understand you. And then often it's a stage and if people really are capable of continuing to grow the adult children, then they can start to soften and see that they really are doing the best they can. And we just have to redefine the relationship, restore the relationship in a different kind of dynamic, even if it means a little more space, to try to find ways that you can find some kind of connection that honors you as the adult child but also is is considerate of the feelings of the parent.
Speaker 2:But I want to add to that it takes work once again on both sides.
Speaker 1:The parent can't just sit back and say I haven't done anything, because there's always takes two to tango it does and a lot of parents are not willing for to, to embrace that self-awareness piece, that self-reflection piece, and they can only see the hurtful behavior of the child. And that's where, even when I meet with the parents who, who can't even have any inroads right now, it's gone too far, and they, they won't even respond to them at all. There's still a lot of work we do together to help them unpack. They just tell me a few things that they think were really innocuous and it was like no, that was actually that. Actually it's a good news that actually could justify in these days, somebody cutting ties with you. So let's talk about that. And then then we work on the most pillar too, which is growth. Like, well, how is this here to help you grow? And and then take it from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so important because whatever age we are, we can continue to grow, and I think sometimes people forget 60, 70, I've done all my growing, but really we have to continue to grow and learn and become self-aware, because relationships, life, everything continues to change.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We have everything to gain and if you have the capacity for it, don't take it for granted. Every single minute of your life Just self-reflect, to have insight, to have the desire to grow, is one of the biggest gifts we've been given.
Speaker 2:The desire to grow. All right, we're going to wrap up and I think I told you, I always ask my guests to leave our listeners with two important things you want them to remember.
Speaker 1:What would those two things be from you? The first one is to put energy into seeing what you're experiencing. The difficulty you're experiencing is happening to you, happening for you, not to you. That it's it's. It's that to look for the benefit and to look for it as a you're being loved on some level in the world, because this is going to help you grow in some way or bring balance in some way that you may not be able to see right now. And the second thing is I would encourage anyone listening to awaken more self-love and self-compassion for, wherever you are, that you're not alone in what you're going through, whether it's this or some other relationship or something else that you feel really stuck in or that you feel really a lot of pain around you know, the last thing we need when we're going through a hard time is to beat ourselves up and shame all over ourselves. So I would just encourage you to start really working on increasing your kindness to yourself.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Before we close, I want you to give one more shout out about your book. I know it's about marriage. I think you know so much about relationships. So one quick shout out about your book the name of it, where they can get it, and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Yes. So Soulful Marriage, you can show it. You can show the book. Oh yeah, I have it up here. Yeah, okay, yeah. So it's healing your relationship through responsibility, growth, priority and purpose, and I'm finding more and more that this is relevant for all relationships, for single people, people who are coupled, and your family, your siblings, your work relationships, similar concepts. And you can find it on Amazon. You can find it at Barnes Noble. I have a website, drrachelglickcom, that shows, I think, five different places that you can purchase the book.
Speaker 2:Okay, great, I'll put that all in my episode notes. So thank you, Rachel, for taking the time and I hope you have a great time in Michigan on the water. Enjoy your husband whether they come or not whether they come or not. Okay, take care.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. This has been such a delight.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, that's a wrap. Thank you so much, Rachel. It was very informative. You know her article, although on estrangement, this covered so much more and I think the thing I pulled out of it the most was we all really do need to work on taking care of ourselves, finding things in our lives that is not just about our adult children. This is really hard work, guys, but if you're in it for the long run and want to win in this game, I think that's the way to do it. I want to thank Connie Gorn Fisher, our audio engineer. She always continues to make these recordings wonderful. Please write to us at BiteYourTonguePodcast at gmailcom. Follow us on social media and we're looking for the next great interview. But remember, sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.
