Bite Your Tongue: The Podcast

Grandparenting Without Overstepping: Love, Boundaries, and Listening

• Bite Your Tongue • Season 6 • Episode 110

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On to today's episode:

The first hug goes to your adult child. That simple shift sets the tone for everything that follows—and it’s the heartbeat of our conversation with Donne Davis, founder of the Gaga Sisterhood, who’s spent two decades helping grandparents build steady, loving connections without overstepping. We dive into the messy, modern realities of grand-parenting—new parenting norms, gift-giving traps, long-distance heartache, and the quiet art of biting your tongue—while keeping one mission clear: protect the bond with the parents so your relationship with the grandkids can thrive.

We unpack why curiosity beats advice, offering word‑for‑word scripts that help you stay close without taking control. From the “anthropologist mindset” for approaching different sleep and feeding choices to setting gentle house rules in your own home, Donne shows how specific praise, reflective listening, and calm boundaries earn trust. We also explore the maternal vs. paternal grandparent dynamic, how to handle in‑law tensions, and why sustainable gifting and secondhand finds can align beautifully with younger parents’ values.

Donne shares her L‑O‑V‑E framework and book - When Grand-parenting Isn't So Grand. 

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Thank you to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.  

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SPEAKER_01:

The relationship with your adult children is the most important relationship. So many grandmas go into their relationship with their grandchild and think, oh my god, this is so wonderful. I even made the mistake of rushing past my daughter one time when I went to visit. Remember to hug them first before you hug your grandchild.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey everyone, welcome to Bite Your Tongue the Podcast. Join me, your host, Denise Gorin, as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children. Together we'll speak with experts, share heartfelt stories, and get timely advice, addressing topics that matter most to you. Get ready to dive deep and learn to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children. And of course, when to bite our tongues. So let's get started. Hey everyone, welcome back to a brand new episode of Bite Your Tongue the Podcast. You should know that lately our inbox has been buzzing with your questions, ideas, and lots of love. Thank you so much. We're already working on bringing some great new guests to answer all the things you care about most. But now before we begin, I have to give a little shout out. If you listeners out there are liking what you're hearing, we'd love your support. Just head to biteyourtonguepodcast.com, click the support tab, and for as little as five bucks, you can give us a nod. If everyone listening did that, we'd be golden. We might even be able to go to lunch. All right, let's get rolling. As some of you know, I just became a grandparent. And when today's guest reached out about grandparenting wisdom, I thought, let's do it. So today we're thrilled to welcome Donnie Davis, founder of the Gaga Sisterhood, an international membership organization for enthusiastic grandmas who want to connect, grow, learn, and share. Donnie launched the Gaga Sisterhood in 2003, shortly after the birth of her first grandchild. Like many new grandmas, she was completely gaga. And I have to say I'm a little gaga too. But she also realized she wasn't the only one navigating the joys and challenges of today's modern grandparenting. For the past 20 years, she's been inspiring grandmothers. She's the author of When Being a Grandmother Isn't So Grand: Four Keys to L-O-V-E, Your Grandparents' Parents, a practical guide to navigating the most common challenges in grandparent today. The book is available on Amazon, and we'll put a link to it in our episode notes. We're excited to dive into her wisdom on how to balance love, boundaries, and realistic expectations while building the kind of family and relationships we want. Welcome, Donnie. We're so glad to have you with us. I'm delighted to be here. Well, good. Let's start with your own story. What I love about having you on about the whole grandparent thing is you've been in the trenches for much longer than a lot of us newbies. So you're going to have a lot to offer. So what inspired you to create this whole grandparent, what do you call it? Supported organization. Yeah, organization. Organization. And what has surprised you the most of the two decades of leading it?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, what surprised me the most is how universal the problems are for all grandmas, no matter where they're from, whether they're from another country, whether they're from a different background, it's always the same problems. Like the parenting rules are very different than when we were parents. The gifts, you got to be very careful of the gifts. Food is a big issue, sleep is different, and boundaries. They're all things that no matter who you are as a grandma, you're most likely going to experience these. And the other thing that was really surprising to me is that there's a difference between being a maternal grandma and being a paternal grandma. Now that's a generalization.

SPEAKER_00:

I would love you to share a little more about that because I have a son and a daughter. My daughter's the one with the child. And I've said to people, I think it must be really different when it's your daughter versus your son. So share a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01:

The bond between the mother and daughter is very strong. I think that maternal grandmas do have some advantage in that respect. But if you get lucky and you're a paternal grandma and you have a wonderful daughter-in-law like I do, she includes you in everything and you feel like you have a good relationship. But often the daughter-in-laws can be really difficult. I just was responding to a grandma today who wrote to me, pouring her heart out about what a horrible daughter-in-law she has. And she says, you know, usually the jokes are about the mother-in-law, but she says this daughter-in-law is just cruel and mean and leaves her out. And there's often a lot you can't do about that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you probably can't. I think everything I've learned from doing these interviews is you have to look inside yourself too. If you have this feeling that your daughter-in-law is being very cruel or keeping you out, you need to figure out what some of your actions are too. What could you be doing that could be contributing to this and trying to come to a uh middle ground, I guess. I never think it's one-sided. And yet I'm sure in many instances it is.

SPEAKER_01:

I would agree. A lot of times grandmas try their hardest, but they're just dealt a bad hand, like to say.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you talk in your book, and I mentioned your book in the intro, and I'll mention it again at the end, but getting off on the right foot. Your daughter or your son's about to have a baby, maybe it differs in each case. What are the steps a new grandparent should take to get off on the right foot?

SPEAKER_01:

Remember that communication is the key. Learn how to be a good communicator and especially a good listener. So ideally, you would sit down before the new baby arrives and say, I'm so excited to become a grandma. And I'm just curious, like, how do you see me in this role? That would be the first thing. The second would be here's my expectations of what I would love. I would love to be able to visit once a week. I would love to babysit. I really want to be engaged and involved in your lives and start with that. And then what are your expectations? How do you see me being in this role?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, yeah, the second person that said that, and I just want to discuss this a little bit, because I don't think the parents to be know exactly what they want. No. When you typically say, I'd like to be involved, the response tends to be, oh, we really want you involved. We can't wait for you to be involved. And all of a sudden you hear that and you act on it. It's like, whoa, you're here too much, or you're saying too much, or maybe you need to go home now. So I'm not 100% sure they know what they want.

SPEAKER_01:

You're right. And they may want something and then change their mind because the whole process is just it's growth. Remember when you were a parent and you were so excited because you're in this rhythm and everything was going so well, and then all of a sudden it changed?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. At three months, six months, nine months, and twelve months.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Everything changes. And the same thing happens with parents. They say, Oh, we don't want you around so much. And then all of a sudden it becomes overwhelming. They say, Well, you know, maybe we'd like you to babysit more often. Or it could go the other way, or they say, We're getting a little bit too much in our lives. I don't know, you know, if they would actually say that. But you have to really, I think, be such a good nuanced listener to pick up cues because a lot of times there's some unspoken stuff that is just too uncomfortable to say. And you have to watch for those cues.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think, particularly in my situation and my parents' situation when my kids were young, they lived somewhere else. So when they came to visit, the time is so intense. And I think that's so much harder because you want to embrace this time, but you don't want to step on their toes. It's a very difficult kind of visit. Whereas if they can call, can you come over for an hour? It's a much more relaxed experience and relaxed relationship.

SPEAKER_01:

It is. But you know, you make the best of what you have. That's what I say. Don't wish for something that you can't have. Yeah. Be happy with what you have and make the best of it and figure out what's the most creative way to spend this time. The thing that I think is hard is when the parents come to visit you and they want to see their old friends when they're visiting. And then you have to share them. That's challenging.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's challenging too. I also wonder as we're talking about this, everyone talked about their parents when they had kids. I complained about my mother. I complained about my mother-in-law. But I look back and I think, gosh, they were actually pretty doggone good. I don't remember them ever saying, you should feed your baby this or you should put your baby down now. They didn't seem to struggle with these things like we do. Do you think because the changes are greater?

SPEAKER_01:

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00:

Definitely. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01:

Because I think we were probably more similar to our parents in parenting styles than our children are. I was fascinated and a little judgmental when I became a grandma and I saw that my daughter was embracing this attachment parenting. And I had never heard of it before, but she was carrying the baby around 24-7 in a Moby wrap and sleeping with the baby. And I thought, oh my gosh, no wonder you're tired. But I didn't say anything. I was very good about trying not to be judgmental. What I tell parents is pretend you're an anthropologist and you're studying this new culture, and it's so fascinating to you because it's so different. And then ask questions in a curious but not judgmental way because a lot of it's going to be so different.

SPEAKER_00:

I love this. So walk me through this. And I've talked to two different couples about this. One pediatrician says, the baby's in your room till six months, another pediatrician says, keep your baby in the room for a year. How would I approach this if I saw my daughter or my son-in-law or my son really tired? The baby's in the room all the time. They're not getting any time together. How would an anthropologist talk about this?

SPEAKER_01:

Again, lead with curiosity. Wow, you know, you look exhausted. How are you sleeping? And then wait to see what they say. Oh my God, the baby in our room is just getting really old. Oh, what makes you think you need to keep the baby in the room? What are your parenting theories on that? Listen to what they have to say, but don't say, Oh, yeah, you know, you should follow that theory. Right. I think you just have to refrain from offering advice and they have to figure it out themselves. I call them the team captains. They set the rules, you respect them. If they don't seem to look like they're doing well, well, sometimes you just have to let them suffer the consequences. I really think that's better than saying, Oh, have you thought about moving the baby into their own room?

SPEAKER_00:

How about when they get older and their little brats come over, they have no manners, they're talking back to their parents, they're yelling at their parents, you don't say a word. You say, Oh, I love having them.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that when they're in your house, that you can say, you know what, in grandma's house, we don't touch things that are on the shelves. Or in grandma's house, we sit quietly at the table.

SPEAKER_00:

If you're visiting their house, so you're from out of town and you're visiting their house and you see this disarray of you just have to zip it.

SPEAKER_01:

I think so. You can certainly try, see what happens.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I don't think you should try. You may never be invited back. So I'm not sure that's the best. Maybe in the backyard when you're with the child by themselves, you can sit down.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

My mother used to do the best job. We'd sit at the table, and it was kind of her thing to do manners with the kids. And it was so great. And they think back and they remember Nana saying, strong and able, no elbow. I love that she just took over and did it because they listened to her more than they were going to listen to me.

SPEAKER_01:

When it comes to manners, hopefully you have them in your house, and then you can say, these are the ways that we like to sit at the table. We like to keep our elbows off the table, or we like to use this spoon, or we don't have our hands in the food. You can do all that when they get a little bit older. You know what? Be a good role model. And then I always say, if you catch them doing something that you think is right, oh, I love the way you're just sitting so quietly at the table.

SPEAKER_00:

If someone has a meltdown, the four-year-old has a meltdown, you don't say anything, you let the parent handle it, I would assume.

SPEAKER_01:

Unless the parent really looks like they're struggling, and you could say, I'm here if you need me. Yeah, that makes sense. Offer your help and say, I'm here if you need me. You know, another thing would be to say, maybe afterward, wow, that looks so hard. What is that like for you? Parents love to vent. They don't want your advice, they just want you to hear them. They want you to hear the suffering. That's why I say it's so important to listen to what parents have to say and to say, oh gosh, that wow, that meltdown. How do you that's so hard to handle? What do you do in that situation?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea too. I would be more apt to say, you handled that so well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, because I feel like anytime you give a compliment, oh, what a great job.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think the compliments should be very specific. Like, I really love the way you picked up the baby and soothed her when she was having such a hard time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. Rather than just you did a good job. I loved how much love you were able to give that baby. That's really important. That's really important. Observe and and then reflect. Right. Now, one thing I really want to get into, and you brought this up at the beginning, is the overgiving. Every day a package arrives from grandma and grandpa, you show up with all this stuff. What's your advice on that?

SPEAKER_01:

That's part of the conversation in the beginning. This is what I would say. I've heard that a lot of grandparents give the wrong gifts. I don't want to be guilty of that. What's your thinking on what do you want me to give? Experiences or certain kinds of toys or nothing at all? Give me a list or tell me what's the best way to give my grandchild presents.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love that. And that's kind of what I've been doing. But I'll be in a store and I'll see the cutest little sweater and I'll say, Oh, this would look so cute on him. And then I think, well, you know what? I don't want it to go to waste. Sometimes I'll take a picture and say, Is this something that seems cute to you? But yeah, that's good. I feel like my hands are tied to have any fun. Does that make sense? Well, how old is your grandson? My grandson's only five months old. Okay. Yes. Fun hasn't even started. I know, I know. But I just mean one. It's the first time I can walk into a baby store for so many years and look at cute things. That kind of fun. Recently I had a conversation about how would you feel if I got them a good winter snowsuits? And she said, Well, I'm going to a used clothing sale next week. Let me let you know what I get. So I just left it.

SPEAKER_01:

What I heard when you just said was a very common thing that millennials really want to be conscientious about the environment. Right. They don't want stuff. They want to reuse. It's I think bargain hunting at thrift stores has become really popular.

SPEAKER_00:

And yet I find with my friends, some love it and some never want it. I have a friend, I think this is the most fabulous idea. And she has eight grandchildren, and she has one granddaughter that's eight or nine. She'll go to Goodwill and she'll put 10 outfits together for this little girl. She'll wash them and iron them and put them all together and cost her 20 bucks. My friend also said she didn't want the grandchild to think she was out spending all this money. She was getting seven outfits. So she wanted to explain to her what she was doing and how she was reusing. And she's got such style she could put it together. Now, we did talk about living far away. What are your best suggestions for grandparents that do live far away as they're developing relationships with their grandchildren?

SPEAKER_01:

I want to recommend a fabulous resource. It's called The Long Distance Grandparent. That's the name of the website. The founder is Carrie, K-E-R-R-Y, Byrne, B-Y-R-N-E. She has the Grandparent Society. It's a membership organization and she has monthly seminars on Zoom for the members. And she has all kinds of resources and ways to stay connected long distance. She also talks about how hard it is to be a long-distance grandparent and how there's some grief involved because it's not what you'd expected. I grew up with my grandparents 15 minutes away, and I had both my grandmas in my life until I was 40. But then my husband and I, when I was seven months pregnant, moved to Southern California. We all lived in Northern California and husband and I moved to Southern. Right when they were about to become grandparents, I had no idea how hard this would be.

SPEAKER_00:

Donnie, I know when we picked this day for the recording, you said there was something really special about this day for you. What makes September 23rd a special day for you?

SPEAKER_01:

It's my grandma Amelia's birthday. She was in my life until I was 40 and she died when she was 93. She was my playmate when I was growing up and my role model for being a grandma. I loved her so much, and we spent so much time together. She and I took a trip across the United States by train when I graduated from high school, all the way to New York and all the way back with stops in between. Isn't that wonderful? She was my playmate. I love sleeping over at her house on the weekends. My expectations were like, oh, I'm going to have a relationship like my grandma and I did. But I do think that there are lots of ways that you can stay connected. The key, again, is are your children going to help you stay engaged? Because that's what it takes. I Zoom with my granddaughter, who's down in Southern California, every Sunday. And we started this during the pandemic. And it's because her mother is really keen on us getting together and me having a relationship with her. You need the parents, especially when they're young. But you know, there's a lot of ways to stay connected with long-distance grandchildren. Look at that website because it's got some great ideas on it.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and I think that's where sometimes the overgiving becomes involved for the grandparent that lives long distance. They just want to send things to feel more connected. You can send letters, you can send pictures, you can send little love notes. It doesn't always have to be a tangible item. Yeah. You have had this Gaga sisterhood for so long, and everyone gets together and chats. I would love to hear from you if you can bring to the top three or four things that were the main issues that the grandparents dealt with.

SPEAKER_01:

The number one is understanding the parents' parenting styles. This is one of the biggest issues. And in my book, I talk about the four keys to love your grandchild's parents. And it's an acronym, L-O-V-E. Right. L's L stands for learn the parent's language. And that's basically how are you parenting? I want to know more about it. Tell me more. What can I read? That's one of the big issues that came up. The other thing is own your shared purpose. Envy of the other grandparents. The other grandparents is another big issue. I think that the O is own your shared purpose. So not only do you have a shared purpose with the parents, but you have a shared purpose with the other grandparents. And they may have more money than you, they may have more goodies than you. But figure out what you're best at, then be proud of it, build that up as much as you can. And then with the other grandparents, acknowledge them and then think to yourself isn't my grandchild lucky to have so many grandparents who love him. And that helps with the rivalry, which is another big issue.

SPEAKER_00:

We're on, we did L-O-V.

SPEAKER_01:

And V stands for value the parents' hard work. And we talked a little bit about acknowledging how hard they work. And I think that's another thing that grandmas would say, I can't believe how much she does for this child. You can't say it that way. You have to say how wonderful that you're doing everything you can. And I love the way you teach your child manners or I love something specific. Value their hard work and acknowledge it. The E is the most important. It's simply stands for empathize. Empathize, empathize, empathize. This is something I learned from my daughter, who's a therapist. She said, Mom, I don't want your advice. I just want you to understand. I want you to listen, and I want you to let me vent. And so sometimes, you know, I try really hard to remember that. And I'll say, Oh, that must be so hard. And that feels so inadequate to me. But that's all she wants. It's so amazing when she says, Oh gosh, you know, I I've stayed up all night doing this. And I'll say, Oh gosh, that you must be exhausted. Or tell me more. That's another good one. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00:

So many people have said these things on other episodes just about relationship with adult kids. So it's the same thing. I think for me, the hardest thing is they are their own family. I am no longer their immediate family, and yet I feel like they're my immediate family. That's a hard separation that is a lot of work internally.

SPEAKER_01:

It is. And that's what it is. Exactly. It's internal work. One of the things that I think is really good is journaling. I've been journaling since 1976. I work out a lot of stuff in my journals. And then I also believe in therapy. I think, especially as parents of adult children, we often need to talk to a therapist because there are just some issues that are so painful and so hard. And you just need to talk to somebody and feel like, yeah, that is hard.

SPEAKER_00:

A mother's love is inexplainable. And it's just you never understand it. And it changes as these children grow. No one would have thought being the parent of adult children would be difficult, but really there are struggles we all go through.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I that just I want to put in a plug for this new book. My friend it's your kids are grown.

SPEAKER_00:

Parenting 2.0.

SPEAKER_01:

And the author is Francine. Yes, Dr. Francine Toder. That's someone I should talk to, I bet. Yes, you should.

SPEAKER_00:

I should. I've got to get that book. Yeah, that sounds great. I will put a link to that in the episode notes too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Her book is a primer for how to communicate with your adult children. I read it and it was so helpful. I wrote a review for Grand Magazine because I just thought it was such a valuable book.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much. That sounds really wonderful. All right. So I want to get towards the end here. Before I do your wrap-up, I told you I wanted to do this little lightning round. I'm going to ask you a few questions and I want quick answers. So are you ready? I'm ready. Practical takeaways for our listeners. What's the worst mistake a new grandparent can make?

SPEAKER_01:

Not respecting the parents' rules. You'll lose their trust. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00:

What's the most important thing you can do to support your adult children as parents?

SPEAKER_01:

Validate your children's hard work and be a team player.

SPEAKER_00:

Good job. In one sentence, what's the secret to being a beloved grandparent?

SPEAKER_01:

Show up with unconditional love, genuine interest, and joy without judgment or agenda.

SPEAKER_00:

Love it. Okay. What's the best way to repair things if you've overstepped or said the wrong thing?

SPEAKER_01:

I've always joked that you need to learn how to practice. I'm so sorry. Because you're going to need it a lot. And yeah. And then, you know, what can I do to make this better?

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. One thing every grandparent should stop doing immediately.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's kind of the title of your show.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Stop giving unsolicited advice unless it's asked for.

SPEAKER_00:

Bite your tongue. One thing every grandparent should start doing today.

SPEAKER_01:

Listen to your adult children and listen to what they're thinking and feeling and get to know them.

SPEAKER_00:

So important. You've been so wonderful. If you want to give us two or three takeaways that you want everyone to remember from this conversation with you, what would they be?

SPEAKER_01:

Number one, the relationship with your adult children is the most important relationship. So many grandmas go into their relationship with their grandchild and think, oh my God, this is so wonderful. I even made the mistake of rushing past my daughter one time when I went to visit.

SPEAKER_00:

You're right. You're so excited to see the baby, you forget.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Remember to hug them first before you hug your grandchild. Okay, number two. I think learn your adult children's values and respect them. Then when your adult child complains about a problem, say, tell me more. I want to understand and refrain from being a problem solver. Sometimes all they want to do is vent.

SPEAKER_00:

You're absolutely right. Thank you so much. I just want to remind everyone again about the Daga Sisterhood and also about your book, When Being a Grandma Isn't So Grand. Four Keys to L-O-V-E, Your Grandchild's Parents. And also that other book we'll talk about. This was really short and sweet, and exactly what I wanted for this. Donnie, thank you so much for your time. It was really terrific.

SPEAKER_01:

It was fun, Denise. I love talking about this, as you can tell.

SPEAKER_00:

I can tell, and you're so good at it.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. Thanks. I've had 22 years of experience.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, and I've had five months, so I need your help. Thank you. Well, that's a wrap. Thank you so much, Donnie. But you can just tell by the way she speaks, her calmness, her experience. Me who's been in the grandparent era for five months, and her who's been there for two decades. She offered so much. I particularly love the lightning round. And her last little piece of advice: don't forget the most important relationship is with your adult child. Don't rush by them to grab the grandbaby. Give them a hug too. And I want to do a shout out to my audio engineer, Connie Gorant Fisher, who does such a wonderful job putting these together. And remember, as I said at the beginning of the episode, if you love what you're hearing, log on to BiteYourTonguePodcast.com. Just give us a small donation, five dollars. Click the support us tab, and you're all done. And as time goes on, and until the next episode, remember sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.

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Denise Gorant Gliwa

Co-host
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Dr. Ellen Braaten

Co-host