Bite Your Tongue: The Podcast
Did you ever expect being the parent of an adult child would be so difficult? Introducing "Bite Your Tongue," a look at exploring that next chapter in parenting: building healthy relationships with adult children. From money and finance to relationships and sibling rivalry, we cover it all. Even when to bite your tongue! Join your host Denise Gorant as she brings together experts, parents and even young adults to discuss this next phase of parenting. We will chat, have some fun and learn about ourselves and our kids along the way! RSSVERIFY
Bite Your Tongue: The Podcast
Prep for the Holidays: You Can Do it - with Grace, Boundaries -- and Self-Awareness
The holidays are upon us. It's time to dig deep.
Catherine Hickem, founder of Parenting Adult Children Today (PACT). Catherine shares a hopeful, practical roadmap for parents who want less tension and more trust—especially as the holidays bring everyone under one roof.
We dig into why adult children often act different around their parents and how expectations, tone, and boundaries can either smother or strengthen the relationship. We discuss:
• the hidden cost of parental expectations on adult children
• why rescues undermine confidence and fuel estrangement
• shifting from advice to curiosity with practical scripts
• separating our self-worth from kids’ choices
• tone of voice as an anxiety dial in hard talks
• setting and holding fair house rules when kids move home
• preparing for holidays with boundaries, space and new traditions
• grieving lost visions so joy can return
Please follow us on social media now. It helps us so much.
Huge thanks to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.
Check out Catherine’s free resource: Seven Keys To Talking With Your Adult Children at leaderpass.com/parenting-adult-children-today/preview
The site and podcast do not contain any medical/health information or advice. The medical/health information is for general information and educational purposes only and is not suitable for professional device. Accordingly, before taking any actions based upon such information, we encourage you to consult with the appropriate professionals. We do not provide any kind of medical/health advice. THE USE OF OR RELIANCE OF ANY INFORMATION CONTAINED ON THE SITE OR PODCAST IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
As my kids got older and I began to grow with them, I began to realize we don't have resources out here to help parents deal with what I consider actually the most significant time in the life of our children. Yes, development is important. I get all of that. I'm totally aware, I totally agree. But I gotta tell you, you lose a lot of young adults from 18 to 25 because they didn't have the relationships that they could have had with the people who raised them. Because the parents bring their expectations, they bring their opinions to that relationship, and it just snuffs the life out of the confidence in those adult children.
SPEAKER_00:Hey everyone, welcome to Bite Your Tongue the Podcast. Join me, your host, Denise Gorin, as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children. Together we'll speak with experts, share heartfelt stories, and get timely advice, addressing topics that matter most to you. Get ready to dive deep and learn to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children. And of course, when to bite our tongues. So let's get started. Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Bite Your Tongue the Podcast. I'm Denise, and I'm ready to dive in to another great episode today. So glad you're with us. It means so much. You know, it's gotten really chilly here in Denver, and that cozy vibe got us thinking this is the perfect time to start talking about holiday prep. Not about decorations and gifts, mind you, but about visiting and being visited by our adult children. We've got a great guest joining us shortly, and she'll talk all about it. But before we dive in, I have a small favor to ask. And don't worry, it's not about donations or money, though we never say no to that support. This time it's about helping us grow our community online. Each of our episodes gets thousands of downloads, which is amazing, and we're truly grateful. But we'd like to see that same energy on social media. So if you enjoy the show, please take a minute to follow us. On Facebook, just search Bite Your Tongue Podcast and on Instagram at BiteYourTonguePod. Look for our big pink logo. Even if you're not a social media fan, trust me, I get it. Your following us really helps us reach more parents like you, but also gives our little podcast some big time credibility. It would mean the world to us. All right, let's jump into today's episode. We're thrilled to have with us today Catherine Hickam. She's a psychotherapist, author, and founder of Parenting Adult Children Today. She calls it PACT. It's a groundbreaking initiative that helps parents navigate this tricky, beautiful, but sometimes baffling world of parenting grown kids. With the holidays coming up, we're going to talk about how to prepare emotionally, mentally, and even spiritually for all that family togetherness. We'll also dive into some of Catherine's guiding principles and practical tools to help us improve our relationships with our adult children right now. Catherine believes that building a great relationship with your adult child isn't about being perfect. Thank goodness. It's about showing up with intention, love, and grace. So let's dive in. Welcome, Catherine. We're so glad to have you with us. And you know that all of our listeners are parents of adult children, and we've promised some holiday tips, so we'll get to that. But I want to know first how you started this pact, a parenting association, what is it? P-A-C-T. Say it for me. What is it? Parenting adult children today. That's right. How did this all begin for you?
SPEAKER_01:It started when my own children were in their early 20s. And I was listening. I'll tell you a quick story. One of my daughter's friends had visited her when she was home during summer. He said to me, He said, Mrs. Hickham, did you know that your daughter is the only friend that I have that is the same in front of her parents as she is behind their back? Oh, interesting. And I said, Really? And he said, Yes. He said, It's true. And I said, Well, what about you? Are you the same? And he said, Oh, no, absolutely not. And I said, Well, Jason, what's that about? He said, Oh no, Ms. Hickam, I figured out. He said, When I go home to be with my mom and dad, I become who they want me to be. Because if I don't, my mom cries, my dad gets mad. And he said, So I just change. And he says, and when I walk out the door, I go back to being myself. And he said, That's what my friends do. It was like I got hit in the gut. It really was a very sobering moment when I heard him say that. And it made me incredibly sad. That is really sad. Isn't it just painful? Painful. And I thought, where do you go when you need to be your full self? Where do you go? What I began to watch, observe, and listen was that they would go to their friends, but they wouldn't go to their parents. And I thought, this is a huge opportunity that parents are missing out on because they need to go to someplace where someone loves them, accepts them, and will stick by them. Their friends are in the same boat that they're in. So they're not going to have the wisdom or the life experience or resources or the insight to know how to support them. I mean, I'm glad that they have each other as friends, but but there are some things in life that are too big for your friend just to be their only source of support. This is the wisdom that parents could give and the resources they could be if the kids weren't so frightened to disappoint them or deal with their anxiety or their frustrations because they didn't turn out like they thought they should, or they were different than how they thought they should be. It really just awakened a whole nother level for me because I'd been a therapist. I'd specialized in parenting. My area was focusing really on 18 and under. But as my kids got older and I began to grow with them as they grew, I began to realize we don't have resources out here to help parents deal with what I consider actually the most significant time and the life of our children. I mean, yes, development is important. I get all of that. And you know, I'm I'm totally aware, I totally agree, but I gotta tell you, you lose a lot of young adults from 18 to 25 because they didn't have the relationships that they could have had with the people who raised them, because the parents bring their expectations, they bring their opinions to that relationship, and it just snuffs the life out of the confidence in those adult children.
SPEAKER_00:Let's start with that, because that's a huge statement and a sad statement. I think you said to me when we were first talking, how many parents of adult children are out there now, or how many adult children are in the world?
SPEAKER_01:There's a 100 million parents of adult children from the ages of 18 to 45, and that's just in the United States. There's some statistics that are pretty sobering. Like 26.1% of adult children have an estranged relationship with at least one, if not both parents. Then their mental health is 36.2% of young adults between 18 and 25 have a mental illness. 29.4% have a mental illness between 26 and 46.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think some of that is just that mental illness is more readily recognized now than it was before? Or is it go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:I will tell you, I think it's higher. And there's a reason for that. And that is over the years, as the illegal drugs, you know, whether it's pod or whatever, the substances that have been laced in those have actually become triggers for mental health disorders that would have laid dormant forever had not that particular substance activated it. And once that that illness is activated, it can't be put back in. Once it's out, it is now an issue. I do think we have a higher rate of disorders because of the activation of chemicals in the brain that the brain doesn't know how to deal with. And I also think we have the highest level of anxiety that probably we have ever seen because we don't have resiliency as a culture like we once had. And so you throw all those things together. We've got some pretty significant culture issues that are impacting relationships in the home. And vice versa, the issues that are in the home are impacting the culture. So we've we've got a problem that we need to be really taking very seriously so that way we can at least have peace within our own homes and our own families. But when you have estrangement at 26.1%, I that is that's an alarming statistic to me.
SPEAKER_00:This is a sad statement. We've started off with many of us might not really know our adult children. They're a different person when they're with us. What can we do, or what do you advise parents to recognize this? Do you talk to your kid about it? Or what sorts of things can parents do? Here's what I'll tell you.
SPEAKER_01:Um, as long as there's breath in our body, there's hope. And I'm a big believer in redemption and restoration. I am the byproduct of a father, of a very difficult relationship with a father that at 25, I had a really heart-to-heart conversation with him about some really hard things. And he took ownership and he said, if I could do it over, I would do it over. He said, But I can't. The only thing I can do is I can give you my word that moving forward, I could be the dad that you need, not the dad that you had. And for the rest of my adult life, my dad worked very intentionally to be an amazing father that I didn't have from five to 25. Incredibly grateful, but he modeled for me redemption. He modeled for me that as long as I could see he was willing to work and change and grow, I jumped right in. And I am, I feel very fortunate that I had the experience of ending my relationship with my dad in a much, much better way than how I had how it started. I have watched as a therapist, right, as a parenting specialist over the years, I have just seen redemption, restoration, forgiveness, learning, growing, um change. And so I'm, I know it can happen. I realize that in some families there's a lot of water that's gone under the bridge, but in most circumstances, um, I will tell you that I think that it's possible. It's a question: are we willing to do the work? Are we willing to listen? Are we willing to grow and be curious instead of holding on to our expectations and our beliefs and all those things that we've been willing to die on the hill for? Can I step back and be a student of my children and really learn who they are versus who I thought they were?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, it makes perfect sense. I love that because one of the things we've stressed almost in every episode, and you kind of referred to this. We have to look at ourselves. I think many times parents see the issue as their kids and they don't play a role. Does that make any sense? Because we grew up in a society where it was honor they father and mother, and we did whatever it took to make sure our parents were happy. Whereas I think this generation takes care of themselves too, which is valuable and good for them. But we don't get that completely.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's it's also a message that we kind of send them from the very beginning. You're right. So, therefore, we're responsible for the messaging that we infused in them that we're now having to live with and deal with. You are so right. That's exactly right. We really have to look at the mirror on this one. I don't want anyone to hear this wrong. We'll never quote overvalue our children per se, but sometimes we have done some things out of balance, which is never healthy. Anytime we're out of balance, it's never healthy. I remember when I was doing parenting years ago with the under 18 crowd, I would say to mom and dad, I would say, every 10th pizza, you get the last piece of pizza.
SPEAKER_00:I had an episode called The Burnt Hamburger, and it was out the mother always taking the burnt hamburger.
SPEAKER_01:There you go. That's the exact lesson, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Why did I say I want the parent to take the last? So they would see that sometimes I matter. I'm the most important one in that moment or that day or that event. They're not always the number one. They can sometimes be number two, number three, number four, because that's what life is. We're not always number one. We have to learn how to shift, to have to adapt. It's not always about us, it's sometimes it's about other people, and that's okay. That's what we call balance, that's what we call teaching kids and adult, young adults. How do you think of somebody beside yourself? How do we create an understanding of empathy? How do we not raise narcissists? Those are some incredibly important questions we need to be thinking about. And so it's important that we give ourselves value. And this is one of the things that I think as parents, we need to be looking at ourselves because too often our value is attached to how our adult children turn out. And our value has to be completely separate and independent because one, it's not, it's too much pressure on them that if my happiness is dependent upon them, that's too weighty to put on the shoulders of a young adult. Secondly, I'm responsible for my happiness. They're not responsible for that. And I don't want to be responsible for their happiness either. So, you know, there's a lot of shifts, a lot of changes that we have to recognize our natural evolution of us going from parenting when we were responsible for them while they were at home to when they became a young adult and an adult, that we have to really shift the way we think. So our self-worth isn't tied to their choices, their decisions, their outcomes. That's not fair to anybody. Everybody loses when we are imbalanced. And we've not done a really good job of that.
SPEAKER_00:And how do you tell that to a parent who's given their whole life to raising kids? And I see it now in this next generation too. It's funny because I was just visiting my daughter. I have a new grand, my first grandchild, five months old, and I looked at her and I said, you know, there's nothing wrong with benign neglect because you overdo it as a parent of a baby. And I see it coming in with the whole next generation following our footsteps, but even amplified.
SPEAKER_01:So, so much. This is one of the reasons why I jumped into this particular area was because we have over-emphasized and we don't let children learn how to self-soothe. We don't let them struggle. It's like struggle is what makes them strong. We put a kid on a playmat and we hand them the toy every time they go to reach it. They're not going to develop the muscle tone that they need to be able to then crawl and then walk. But we're also taking opportunities away for them to develop confidence. And to me, that is that's part of the damage that we've done. We've not given them opportunities to develop self-worth, self-confidence that they can overcome, they can persevere, they can push through. I mean, what an incredible feeling to know that I've done something hard and I've gotten to the other side. And this is what, you know, as young adults that we have in our homes and adults, we have to respect them, but they have to work through the process. They will learn, they will grow just like we did when we were making decisions and we were making mistakes. But we have to, we're too quick to rescue, we're too quick to give our opinion, we're too quick to tell them what to do. Not helpful, not encouraging.
SPEAKER_00:So hard. I want to go back to the expectations that you were talking about, not tying up our happiness with their happiness and all of that. Give any advice for parents that have given their whole life to raising their children, had expectations that they were going to be best buds when they became adult kids. The kid feels this tension that all their expectations, you know, their parent thinks they're not a doctor, they're not a lawyer, they're not a CEO, they're not a tech genius or whatever. How do parents deal with those feelings?
SPEAKER_01:Those feelings are a reflection of how the parents are insecure. Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. Basically saying, I wasn't enough because if I was enough, they would be making different choices and they would be this. Not not true. And when we have a hole that we haven't filled in a healthy way or addressed our own not enoughness, we project it onto them, and now they're carrying our not enoughness, and we've sent a message that they're not not enough, and now they don't want to be around people that remind them they're not enough. So estrangement happens, disconnect happens. If I every time I see them, I'm a disappointment or I think I've disappointed you in some way. Why do I want to hang around? I wouldn't, that's for sure. It's not fun, painful.
SPEAKER_00:And sometimes even the parent can't fake it.
SPEAKER_01:No. Oh, parents, our children know us better than we know ourselves. That's the problem. Because they've lived with a life, they've lived a lifetime with us. They know when we're faking it, they know when we're not being genuine, and they've heard the comments that we've made about other people, about other people's kids. Yeah. Therefore, guess what? They don't forget. This is the reason I can't tell my mom this, is because I heard what she said about, you know, my cousin so-and-so. So they don't tell you. So they just keep it inside and they live a secret life. Parents would be shocked, shocked if they really knew the struggles our kids had that they don't feel the safety to be able to talk about. I want us to change that because you know what? We love our kids, we want the best for our kids. We don't want them to struggle that way. We just don't know that we're we're messing them up.
SPEAKER_00:We don't know that we're we're presenting that way. So you have some guiding principles I want to go over so we can at least give some. This is also interesting, but I want our listeners to have something they can take away to work on. We talked about expectations, but one of the things you also talked about treating them like children.
SPEAKER_01:You have to remember our job in the first 18 years of life was to be a teacher, right? We were to teach them about all kinds of things in terms of preparing them for life, being willing to release them. But we get to that point of releasing them, and then what we do is we hold on, we push back when they try to become independent because we're scared. And that fear is contagious and it falls over onto them. And so what we want to do is get really honest about what's my biggest fear. And if we can sit with that, the honesty of that fear, then we can make a decision. Is that the what I want to hand them as they leave, or do I want to hand them my belief that they can do this? Even though I may not fully understand what all that will mean, am I gonna give them the gift of my confidence and my belief in who they are? Or am I going to be so scared that I'm gonna come off controlling and trying to manage their lives? Because if I try to quote, parent them the way I did when they were little, I will lose them.
SPEAKER_00:Can you give me an example of how a parent might say something that sounds that is controlling, treating them like a child as an adult?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So for instance, let's say that their ki their child has gone off to college and they're several weeks into their first semester of college, and they have an opportunity to go away for the weekend at someone's home. Now, they've also told you that their first set of tests are coming up for the new semester. And so the parent would say, Are you really sure that's a good idea? I'm really concerned because you've got all those tests coming back and you're gonna go party over the weekend. Don't you think you should be staying back to study to get ready for your first exams?
SPEAKER_00:I've said it a million times. My kids are older now, but I know I've done that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:See what I'm saying? Good intentions, probably the smart thing to do is not do that weekend. But you know what? That's not our decision to make. They may need to learn that in the very first month of the very first semester that they may not have their act together as quickly as they think they do. So if they fall on this one, guess what? They'll be smarter the next time. But if they don't have the space to learn the lessons, guess what's gonna happen? I keep repeating the mistakes because they're gonna do it to spite us. Say, I'm my own person, I want to do this. And the truth is, we don't want to be the reaction, we want to not have them manage us. We can ask questions and just say, I'm sure that's gonna be a fun weekend. How do you feel about the test that you're coming back to?
SPEAKER_00:So say it that way, let them be curious or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That gift of curiosity, that because what you're assuming the best, and if they haven't thought of it, you've planted a seed, but you've not said, Well, I think that's a really stupid idea. And I hear parents say, that was really dumb. Why would you do that? How helpful is that?
SPEAKER_00:Not very helpful to anybody.
SPEAKER_01:It's disrespectful. We need to talk to them the way we would want someone to speak to us if we were contemplating a decision that maybe we had not fully given thought to. So it's a question of do I treat them respectfully or do I talk down to them as if they have no sense? If I really think my kid has no sense, then I need to go look in the mirror and go, where was I in the parenting world that I didn't do my job? Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I get what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01:It's like we gotta be really we gotta be really careful because that mirror can pop up really fast.
SPEAKER_00:You mentioned boundaries. I want to hear your thoughts on boundaries because you mentioned the importance of setting boundaries once your kids become adults, and parents should do that without guilt. I have never heard about parents setting boundaries. I've always heard about the adult kids setting boundaries.
SPEAKER_01:I think parents can set boundaries. Okay. But I and I think we have to make some decisions, especially since we have such a wave of adult children coming back home due to the economy, due to the horse, due to all kinds of reasons, right? Just the cost of living. But before they come back home, parents need to get really clear about what their non-negotiables are. In my home, packing up was not an option in my home. If they wanted to do that, if that was a choice that they had chosen to make, that would be fine. They could make that choice on their own by themselves. But they weren't doing it in underneath my roof. Not something that I wanted happening. I didn't want people coming and going in the middle of the night that I didn't know. I needed to know when I went to bed that I was familiar with the people that were in that house. How you say something like that, you can be very judgmental and very condescending and unkind, or you can just say, hey guys, I just need you to understand this is where dad and I are. And I know it may not make sense to you, but this is what works for us. I need you to really recognize this is an important boundary for us. And I need you to honor that. And then they get to make a choice. And if they want to live in my house, they get to that's fine. But they have to, they have to agree to that. If they are coming back, I'm not gonna be responsible for cooking their meals. Guess what? And I'm gonna expect that they, if they clean mess the dishes up, they're gonna need to clean the dishes up. So it's a question of the how do I say it in a manner that says, we're a team, we're all gonna be living together. Let's talk about what do you need? Here's what we need. How do we create the best win-win possible? But have the conversation before we quote, pick up where we left off when they left for college years ago. They come back different people. We need to treat them differently because they come back different people. But we don't do that. We just kind of think we just pick up where we left off. No, that's not what happens.
SPEAKER_00:What happens when you have the adult child that doesn't respect your boundaries? So you've said this very nicely, they've agreed, and all of a sudden you wake up and there's a girl leaving the house or whatever, or they're on the couch and not helping with anything. I mean, I've I get lots of letters like this. How do the parents handle something like that?
SPEAKER_01:I think again, if they come back, you have to say, let me tell you what our expectations are. There will need to be a job, there will need to be involvement in a full-time educational program. I mean, lay out here's our expectations. If there's some kind of a mental illness or treatment program, then you say we expect you to be involved in this or this or this. Because living here doing nothing is not an option. We're all contributing, we're all working. We expect you to either be employed, be in school, contributing in some way, but just living here freeloading isn't an option. You're an adult, we're gonna treat you like an adult, but adults have adult responsibilities. Therefore, we need you to come back and tell us how are you gonna contribute to the world, how are you gonna contribute to our home. We'll give you a couple days to figure that out. But this is really important to us. It's an act of love. And sometimes you have to give kids space because they've been through things. I'm not talking about being severe. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? But I've talked to too many parents where we're three years in and the adult child hasn't worked, hasn't gone to school, hasn't stayed consistent in their treatment program. I mean, nothing. They're like, what do we do? You're gonna hold boundaries and you're gonna let them have to problem solve. You're gonna put it in writing, you're gonna look give them very specific an outline of expectations, and they get to choose, they get to make the choice. You're simply gonna carry out the their choice, whatever that is. And that way it's they're making choices and decisions. You're not doing this to them. They've made the choices, you're simply executing the the outcome of their choice. But we have to be willing to let them suffer. We have to be willing to let them have some hard times, and that's where most parents just collapse. They are not willing to let their kid have to figure it out. And what they don't understand is every time they rescue them, they're insulting them. Not helpful.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Everything you're saying is really hard for parents who have been overly involved with their kids growing up. I love what you said about your expectations are a reflection of your own insecurities. I think that's so true. All right. I'm moving to one of your other core relationship values, which is tone of voice. I'd love to hear what you have to say about tone of voice. Look at you! That look on your face says it all.
SPEAKER_01:I just can't even tell you. When we open our mouths, what comes out of our mouth decides if our child hears us as if they were five or 10 or 15, right? It triggers memories from the times past and how we use their name. Our inflection, like just triggers all kinds of flood of memories, whether it was a good conversation or conflicting conversation or whatever. It just all comes back in. So we have to really pay attention to our behavior, our eyes, you know, because we eye roll like they eye rolled. Well, all the things that we were frustrated with them, they're gonna be frustrated with us, or it's gonna send a message. We really have to be very self-aware, especially if the conversation's hard. I need to be very metered because, like I said, anxiety is contagious. And the minute my voice raises, their anxiety is gonna be far higher. And I don't want them managing me, I want them hearing my heart. What do you mean by managing you? Let's say I react and I get upset and I'm mad and I'm frustrated and I'm loud, the issue at that point becomes secondary to the fact of them getting me calmed down. Got it.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not gonna pay attention to the issue until they get me calmed down. And then because I've reacted so severely, they know exactly what I want from them. And what happens if what I want from them, they can't provide me or it's not of value to them.
SPEAKER_00:Do you have clients practice tone of voice?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. I recently had a a mom's her her daughter's like in her mid-30s. Because she said, I'm a very expressive person. See, that's how I am, and I work so hard on it. Yeah, I have a daughter that's not. And she said, and the more I'm expressive, the more she shuts down. But she says, What I've observed is the more steady I am, the more expressive she becomes. Look at it as there's a hundred ounces in any exchange of communication. And if I'm 80% of the emotion, that other person's gonna probably take on the other 20% and shut down. So if I really want to know something, I at least have to create the environment that says, you're safe to give me your thoughts, your ideas, whatever's going on in your head, and I'm not gonna overwhelm you with my emotion because they've managed us, like I said, uh, their whole lives, they've managed us. You're so right actually dictated how they learned to deal with dysfunction, to be honest with you. I can tell you from my own experience, my dad had a temper. Um, my goal was to be flatlined and invisible, so I didn't activate the temper because the last thing I wanted to have in my world was to be seen by him. I really didn't want to be seen because it was gonna be good. So I worked very hard to be very invisible. Now I learned a lot, don't get me wrong, I learned to be A lot because I was a great listener, observed, became a great awareness of other people. I paid a price.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so happy you two came together later in life. That's so wonderful. Yeah, such a gift, such a gift. Okay. Self-reflection.
SPEAKER_01:Probably one of the most important skill sets that a parent can have.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:If we don't have it, we're going to keep running into a buzzsaw. It gets more complicated when you bring in the in-laws. When the a child marries somebody and we don't have self-awareness, we will say things we shouldn't say, do things we shouldn't do, and we can create more problems for those future relationships because we lack the sensitivity, we lack the ability to have self-control, to ask the questions versus make assumptions, have judgments, project expectations. You want to kill a relationship with a future in-law. Just keep talking about what you think they should do or should be or how something should go. And you're you're just paving that path for a propeller blade. Not good, not healthy.
SPEAKER_00:All of this is so hard. I think of myself, most of my life I was in the business world, and that was my job.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Solve the problems, tell people what they need to do, blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden, you can't do anything you were good at.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. Right. It's hard.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's very, very, and that's all about self-reflection.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's exactly right. Here's the other thing is that we love these kids, right? Yes. This is our heart walking outside our body. Now we're being told don't say anything. And it just about kills us.
SPEAKER_00:When you say don't treat them like children, we have to keep putting on our heads, they're adults now.
SPEAKER_01:If we insult when we assume they don't think.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And we have to have that in our head all the time because we have to have confidence that they're going to make the right decisions. And if they don't, they'll figure it out. But boy, sounds so easy when we talk about it here, Catherine.
SPEAKER_01:I have two children. I have a son and I have a daughter. My son always said to me, I have to learn everything the hard way, mom. I had a daughter who said, Oh, no, no, I'm going to watch him and learn one video.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right, right. Very interesting.
SPEAKER_01:So the son who always said, I have to learn it the hard way, I had to let him learn it the hard way. There were some pretty painful lessons.
SPEAKER_00:And you were a psychotherapist. So you also had to say, uh-oh, I'm counseling other people and watching my kids spiral. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And you're like, this is really hard. But I know I know him and I know he's right. He has to learn it the way he learns. I'm just going to have to quote stay, step over, stay out of the way. And when he falls, I'll be there and say, I'm here. How can I support you? What did you learn? What needs to happen next?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, we're going to do one more thing, and then I'm going to do a quick, rapid-fire holiday round. Okay. Because I could talk to you for hours. I want to talk about grief. You mentioned grief, and I think the grief must involve letting go of your expectations. Yeah. I guess judgment, does judgment come into play with grief? Or tell us about grief because you have all you write a lot about it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. How about I give you a story? Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I love your story. I love your stories. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:My son's best friend got married. We were at the wedding. During that time, it comes time for the mother-son dance. They picked the song that I would pick if my son was getting married, right? I'm sitting at the reception, they're dancing, and I start to cry. I'm asking myself, what are these tears about? There is this awareness in the moment that I will probably never have a mother-son dance. The reason I had that awareness was because my son had never dated a woman from the United States. He was always dating other cultured women. They don't practice the same wedding practices. I had attended probably three to four hundred weddings because my dad was a minister. I had been married to a minister for 35 years. So I had a whole memory bank of all kinds of weddings. And I would imagine my kids getting married. In that moment, I realized that will probably never be me. And I had to grieve the fact I would not have that moment. I grieve it. My daughter's there. She takes my hand. She knows why I'm grieving. My son is clueless. He has no idea why I'm fast forward four years. I get a call from my son. He said, Hey, mom, I'm getting married in 60 days. Would you come to the wedding? He's on the other side of the world. He's living in Singapore. And I said, Of course I'll be there. I get my ticket. I head there. Their traditions looked nothing like anything I'd ever experienced before. I read up on them. I got as knowledgeable as I could. And I went to this wedding and I had an amazing time. I got to meet all of her family. I got to enjoy every single moment. I would not have been able to do that had I not grieved something that I thought was going to be mine. I could fully embrace and be totally present for his moment the way he wanted to do it. Because I didn't bring any baggage of expectation of what I thought it should be. And I think when we give ourselves permission to grieve the moments, whether they're small or they're big, we can get really clean, really honest. We can let it go, and then we'll be ready to receive and be what they need us to be versus what we want it to be. And that's a big difference. And I just think that grief is just a gift. Some things are harder to let go of than others. I'm not gonna lie. I've had to grieve some things that I didn't think I would have to grieve. But I will tell you, I'm grateful that I learned it because I want to be pure hearted when I'm with them. I really don't want to bring my unfinished business that's not theirs to carry into that relationship. I don't blame us as parents. I mean, the minute we find out we're having a child, we immediately begin to have dreams and visions and expectations of what if this or what if that. And my son's adopted, actually. And his mother gave me a letter before he was born. In the letter, she gave me her dreams for him. Her dreams started and she never got to hold him. It's just such an innate part of who we are that we need to honor that and not beat ourselves up for having dreams or or being disappointed when things don't go the way we thought, but we can't weigh them down with stuff that was not theirs to ever carry to begin with. And grief really helps us release that and move forward. That's the gift that I think we can give if we're if we'll stay aware. That's why self-awareness is important, staying connected to our emotions. Yeah. So we can bring the best version of us to them with them.
SPEAKER_00:I want to mention to everyone, because I've enjoyed this conversation so much. Catherine has a great free resource you need to check out. It's seven keys to talking with your adult children. And I will put a link to it. I know it's leaderpass.com, parenting adult children today, forward slash preview. I'll put a link in the episode notes. I found it wonderful. She talks to you in many videos. She gives you lots of tools to work with. So it's conversations much like this with Catherine. Well, you don't get to talk to her. She talks to you, but it's great. Okay, Catherine, let's have some fun with this rapid fire holiday round.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's let's go.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, let's go. Catherine, the number one mistake parents make when they're prepping for the holidays.
SPEAKER_01:Their expectations that all the traditions will continue.
SPEAKER_00:How do you cope if no one's coming home this year?
SPEAKER_01:You get a life, create your own journey of joy, and you figure out where do you get to celebrate and do it because you matter and you're important.
SPEAKER_00:Tips for welcoming a new partner or significant other to your home at the holidays.
SPEAKER_01:Call ahead of time, welcome them, let them know you're excited about them coming. Ask them if they have something that they would like for breakfast or a special scent that brings back really sweet memories from their past. Just being thoughtful and letting them know you are looking forward to this experience. That's great.
SPEAKER_00:What do you do when your kids slip into the childhood mode when they visit? Because that happens a lot. Suddenly the rooms are messy, they're leaving their dishes everywhere. They become that teenager again when they come back home.
SPEAKER_01:I think you can sit down and have a conversation if it's not just like a one-time thing, but you're just noticing a pattern and just say, hey, look, I'm getting a mixed message from you. On one hand, you want me to be sure that I'm treating you like an adult, but that there are other times when I see that you kind of slip back. So we need to quote get on the same page because I don't want there to be conflict. So I just needed to put this on the radar screen so that way you we can continue on the adult-adult relationship.
SPEAKER_00:And it's all about that tone of voice, right? It's all about that tone of voice. It's all about that tone of voice. Absolutely. Best advice for parents when they are visiting their adult children in another city or a place for the holidays.
SPEAKER_01:Call ahead and say what would be the best way for us to quote take the load off of our visit with you. Do we need to bring groceries? Would it be helpful if we took the children out for a day? How can we best support you? So you're not feeling like, oh my goodness, I got to now take care of everybody.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that is the pressure. Okay, the whole crew's together. You've got 12 people in your house sleeping everywhere. Tensions rise. What's your top strategy?
SPEAKER_01:Create opportunities for everybody to get out of the house and go do their own thing. So we're not all together 24-7. Everybody needs some space. Everybody needs some time as of their own little group, or the gals can go do this, the guys can go do this, or the grandparents can take the grandkids, or whatever mix it is. But everybody needs space to quote breathe and to not feel the pressure of all the intensity that comes with all the relationships being exposed to each other at the same time.
SPEAKER_00:And speaking of relationships, what do you do when you have two siblings? Let's say you've got three or four, but two of them just do not get along. They seem to tolerate each other for the first day together, but by the second day, it's really uncomfortable for everyone.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I think if you know that's going to happen, you may even want to have a conversation ahead of time and say, look, I know that you and your brother are at odds right now, but I want to you to put this in your head that what do you need to do in order to come and be the very best version of you with him? Is there anything the two of you need to be talking about before you come here? And if it can't be, I just want you to know I love you. I want you here. Let me know how I can support you. I'm not gonna take sides, but just let me know if you need some space and you need to walk away, that's fine. Do what you need to do to take care of you. But I am aware that y'all are not doing well. Uh and let me know how I can support you, but I'm not gonna be the referee. Right. That's perfect.
SPEAKER_00:Catherine, this has been terrific. We've been doing this for four years, and I've had lots of guests, and I'm always thinking, well, maybe I'm gonna stop the podcast because there's not many fresh ideas. This was so fresh and so wonderful. So I can't thank you enough. But before we leave, I always ask my guests for two takeaways that you want our listeners to remember after they've pressed stop on the podcast. What would you say?
SPEAKER_01:The very first thing is for us to remember it is never too late to be a great parent. As long as there's breath in our body, we can work and grow and evolve and change to be the healthiest version of ourselves. We can't control what our adult children choose to do with that, but at least we know we have given it everything that we could, and that's all we can ask for. Then I think the second thing is really get self-aware on what expectations you bring into that relationship with your adult children. We often have great intentions, our hearts are right and we want the best, but sometimes we can really weigh them down and they think they could never make us happy or will never meet our expectations. That's not the way we want our children to remember our relationship. So get honest, get clean, get rid of them. And if you need to, apologize. Let them know hey, I've put this on you. This is about me, this isn't about you. I love you, period. There's no if, and, or but, period. I think there's something very freeing when we do that.
SPEAKER_00:Great takeaways, really terrific. Catherine, this has been so helpful and so real. I loved your stories. Thank you for sharing your insight, your humor, and of course your heart. We really appreciate it. And I'll make sure to mention your website and a lot more about you in our episode notes. So thanks for joining.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you so much for having me in. I wish everybody a really wonderful holiday.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's a wrap. I think we really have a lot to think about. At least she gave me a lot to think about. That beginning when she talked about adult children really not being themselves when they're around their parents, was very enlightening to me. And so many things about our expectations pulling them down. I really think she's right on so many levels. I hope you'll check out her website, parenting adultchildrentoday.com. And that's where you'll be able to get a free pre-review of the seven keys to talking with your adult children. And I'll also link them in our episode notes. I also wish all of you a pleasant, relaxing, wonderful holiday period. Remember, your role may have changed, but your relationship can keep growing with love, curiosity, and maybe a little less unsolicited advice. And that goes with saying hey, sometimes you may have to bite your tongue.
