Bite Your Tongue: The Podcast
Did you ever expect being the parent of an adult child would be so difficult? Introducing "Bite Your Tongue," a look at exploring that next chapter in parenting: building healthy relationships with adult children. From money and finance to relationships and sibling rivalry, we cover it all. Even when to bite your tongue! Join your host Denise Gorant as she brings together experts, parents and even young adults to discuss this next phase of parenting. We will chat, have some fun and learn about ourselves and our kids along the way! RSSVERIFY
Bite Your Tongue: The Podcast
Episode Rewind: From Enabling To Empowering: Rethinking Parenting In The Age Of Anxiety
We sit down with "therapist to the millennials" Tess Brigham to unpack why the 20s feel overwhelming, how parents can ease anxiety without enabling, and what healthy support looks like in a world of constant comparison and blurred work boundaries.
We also share a step‑by‑step plan for tapering financial help and end with three clear takeaways to guide tough conversations.
• why questions beat lectures when adult kids call in crisis
• social media’s role in comparison, urgency and the “by 30” myth
• money stress, pandemic shifts and the gig economy
• boundaries at work, after‑hours expectations and burnout
• individuation, values and reworking family narratives
• mother‑daughter friction and being seen without defensiveness
• tapering financial support with timelines and transparency
• three takeaways: coach, contextualise, accept
Huge thanks to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.
Email us at biteyourtonguepodcast@gmail.com with ideas/feedback.
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If you've got a kid where you're really, I'm really enabling them and I'm solving all their problems for them, that's where you want to stop solving your problems and simply, when you get on the phone with them, ask them questions. Which is they're calling you and saying, Oh my god, I don't know what to do, a pipe broke in my house, and I don't know, should I call a plumber? Do I call the landlord? What do I do? That's a moment where you want to say, Well, what, huh? What do you think you should do? What makes the most sense for you right now? And coach them through solving the problem on their own. That's one thing that I see is I see a lot of parents wanting to, you know, wanting to do it differently maybe than how their relationship with their own parents and they want to have this close relationship with their kids, and then they realize, like, oh my god, I my kid's 25 and they're calling me all day, every day, asking me about everything. And so those are the moments of time where you want to start to be a bit more strategic and think, okay, I need to get them to solve their own problem. And so that requires you to just ask questions. Just questions, no statements.
SPEAKER_04:Hello everyone, I'm Denise Gorin. Welcome to Bite Your Tongue the Podcast. Thanks for joining us as we speak with experts, authors, parents, and even young adults to explore the transition from parenting our young children to building healthy relationships with our now adults. Hopefully we'll grow together, learn about ourselves, our young adults, and of course, when to bite our tongues. We are so happy you're with us. So let's get started. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Bite Your Tongue the Podcast. It's hard to believe, but it's been just about one year since we dropped our first episode. We're so grateful to all of you, our listeners, and of course also to our amazing guests. We're thrilled that our listenership continues to grow, and we're very touched by the feedback we continue to receive. So let's celebrate. Let's celebrate with a special offer you'll not want to miss. Starting today, you'll be able to buy these darling bite-your-tongue coffee mugs. They are fun and great to have around. Well, maybe to remind you when to bite your tongue. A portion of each sale will help cover the cost of doing the podcast. So you'll get a great mug and we can keep on going. We hope you'll help us. There will be a link to buy the mugs on our website, on social media, and in all of our episode notes. Remember, they'll make great gifts too. We hope you love them. And remember each purchase will help us keep going. Now let's get on to this episode. Well, today we're thrilled to welcome Tess Bringham, a licensed psychotherapist, life coach, and former 20-something. In fact, if you look at her website, you'll learn a lot about her 20-somethings. Or her 20-something years, I should say. But anyway, in a recent article from CNBC, Tess says, over a decade ago, when I first became a therapist, I never expected that five years later my practice would consist of nearly 90% millennials, and the rest of my patients being the parents of millennials. So hey, listeners, she's got both sides of the story covered for us. Tess has been featured in major media throughout the U.S., from the New York Times to O Magazine. So we're pretty excited to have her today. I think it's going to be really great, Ellen. What do you say?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I totally think this is going to be great. She's going to give us that inside scoop on what she's hearing from our kids, the millennial generation. And maybe through this we can understand a bit more about them and even more importantly, where we might offer some compassion and support and even some uh mental health assistance for us as we're dealing with them and they're dealing with us, I have to say.
SPEAKER_04:You're telling me, and and Ellen, maybe we ought to all be discussing that with our new bite-your-tongue mug over a cup of coffee, right? Oh, I can't wait to get mine.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Absolutely. Anyway, go ahead. So, Tess, uh, is it okay if we call you Tess? Oh, yeah, of course. Well, we'd love to know a bit more about you and how you became a therapist with a practice of mostly millennials.
SPEAKER_00:Well, so yeah, I mean, Denise mentions this. My website talks about my own 20-something years because my own 20-something years were full of, you know, what am I doing with my life and what does it all mean? And I had my own quarter life crisis when I was 27. And I didn't really know I worked in my big dream when it growing up was to work in film Hollywood. Um, and that's what I worked for throughout my entire life, through high school and college. I was a film major and I, you know, spent my summers like interning at I spent an entire summer interning at Columbia Pictures for free. And then I interned at Warner Brothers, and I, you know, this was my dream. And when I was 24, I went off to LA and to fulfill my dream. And by 27, I was depressed and exhausted and lost and confused. And and that's when I had this quarter life crisis, and I ended up leaving LA, coming back to the Bay Area, which is where I'm from, and having to sort of start all over again in some ways. And that's when I finally decided that I wanted to be uh a therapist. That was the thing that I enjoyed the most about working. I used to work with actors, and that's what I enjoyed the most was just being able to be, you know, listen to their problems, hear what they have to say. I thought I was pretty good at that part. And then about 10 years ago, I opened up, um, after I got licensed and all that, I opened up a practice in downtown San Francisco, not really knowing who was going to show up. And what happened was that a bunch of 25, 26, 27-year-olds showed up. And I was like, oh, wait a second. I remember these years. I remember how lost and confused I was because it had been over a decade since I went through all of that. I was like, oh wow, you know, being a young adult in the world today, there are some things that I could really relate to with my clients that I could understand. Because I also spent a good chunk of my, you know, 20-something years in San Francisco and in LA. And I and I understood what it was like to be in the city and and to deal with sort of the day-to-day part. But as I was talking to them, I realized there was this whole other aspect of life that I had no idea about that I didn't have to deal with, which was the internet, social media, um, and and really, you know, the pressures that having information at your fingertips create, uh, the pressure of keeping up with the Joneses and having to, you know, having friends who are getting engaged and, you know, promoting themselves and all of this on some social media platform or another, and that constantly being in your face. And so that's when I, you know, I really started to study this generation. How are millennials different? What is their experience like from myself? I mean, I'm in my late 40s, so I'm a Gen Zier. I mean, Gen Gen Xer, sorry. And I um, so I really started to try to understand them. Like, what is it about this generation and what is it that they're experiencing that no other generation has ever experienced before? And so that's where it really came from. And then inevitably, what would happen is parents would call me because they see that I work with 20-somethings. So they they'd call me up because they were lost and confused as well on what do I do about my kid? And that's when I started to work with them as well.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I know this episode, we want to get into the top five or more concerns you see in your practice, but I want to ask a couple questions first. I listened to your video, so you say all this and I'm getting it. Why are the 20-somethings so hard? Have they always been so hard? And also even the adult parent relationship. I think more and more of our friends, we're in our 60s, are talking about how to, you know, build that healthy relationship with our adult children. So you did a whole video on why young adulthood is so hard. Can you sort of sum that up for us?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. So it's hard because you're trying to do two things at once and they both inform each other, and you're really flying by the seat of your pants. So, on one hand, you are trying to figure out who you are, what you want, what life's all about. How are you gonna be in the world? What are you gonna value and believe in, right? Because up until this point, your values and beliefs and how you see the world has been heavily influenced by your parents and how you lived and how you grew up. And when you're out on your own, this is your opportunity to say, like, oh, is work, you know, do I want to make my career my entire life? Do I want to sacrifice, you know, all these things over here, vacations and fun and all of that for my career? Like making those big decisions around who you are and what you value. And at the same time, you're trying to figure out what kind of work do I want to do? What kind of relationship do I want to be in? Do I want to be in a relationship? You know, how do I be in a healthy relationship? Do I want to get married? Do I want to have kids? Like, where am I going to live? You know, what all of these big questions. And the thing is, is that it's through understanding yourself and your values and what you believe in that informs the kind of jobs that you pick and the and the um relationships that you have in the city that you live in. But also your experiences at your jobs and your relationships in the cities that you live in, that actually also informs your values and what you believe in. So you're you're sort of walking into this thing a bit, you have a sense of who you are already, but you're walking into this and you're like, okay, I have to figure all of these things out. And so the thing is that you're you're constantly like in a job and you're like, oh, wait a minute, it's not quite this job, and this is going to inform my values over here. And so my values are gonna change a little bit, okay, and that's gonna change the job I have, right? And so this is what you see with young people. There's a lot of moving around in jobs and cities and relationships because it's this constant trying to figure it out. And the problem is that there's somewhere along the way, there was this myth that was created that said that you have to figure all this out by 30. That's what I was gonna say. Are they rushing it? Right. Exactly, exactly. Yes. And and that's the part that's really tricky is that this is where the social media stuff comes into play. Because when I was younger and I was looking around at my friends, you know, we were all driving crappy cards and we were all broke and we were, you know, all sort of flailing around. There wasn't this thing that was attached, you know, we all have our phones attached to our hands now. And there wasn't this app that I could go to where I could scroll through and see people my age in fabulous cars, taking fabulous vacations, you know, doing all of this stuff that constantly, you know, is this reminder of I'm failing in some way, I'm behind in some way. Um, and I think we did, we started creating these things 30 under 30 and these lists and all of that that made 30 this weird cutoff point. And I think that for a lot of young people, they really see that as, oh, I'm an adult now. If I'm over 30, I'm officially, you know, old, or I have to uh I have to figure it all out. And everybody's worst fear is if I don't figure out these things now, I'm gonna wake up at 50 and be miserable. So I gotta figure this out now.
SPEAKER_03:Can I just tell you, hearing you say this, that a person at my age, I don't know if Denise is feeling this too, is it's not that different. Like the things that you're saying that 20-somethings have to negotiate are the same sort of things that 60-something year olds have to negotiate, which is what's my role in the world right now? I'm not doing the same things I used to do. I'm not a parent as my primary sort of relationship. And many 60-year-olds are changing their jobs, leaving their jobs, and trying to figure out what the next stage of their life is. And this is different for this generation, I think, because 50 years ago, if you reached the age of 62, you really were kind of looking at the end of your life, and now that's not the way it is at all. We're sort of expected to also have another part of our life that is productive and generative. And it's just interesting hearing you talk about this, how similar the process is for both sides.
SPEAKER_04:But I want to say, I'm gonna add to that, Ellen. I think some of that's true, but I think the difference is when you're in your 20s, you do have this fear, sort of like Tess said, if you don't do it now, you're gonna be a failure. And I think we've accomplished what we probably are, you know, our greatest accomplishments up to 62, 63, maybe Hillary Clinton 75, and running for president or whatever. And I always say, God, she can run for president. I can't even, you know, tie my shoes sometimes. Um, you know, we have all those same comparisons going on, but I think there's a lot of fear in your 20s of not taking the right steps, and then that's the whole rest of your life's gonna be a failure.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. And I do think that we gave them this impression that somehow this is, you know, my my little bone to pick with just how we, and I'm putting myself in there, and the education system sort of make every child think that they're going to grow up to be a leader when really only very few people can be leaders. And so I think we we have set that generation up for feeling exactly like they do.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, absolutely. Well, and the other thing I was gonna say about you know, the difference between 20 and 60 is that you have, I often say there are things about aging that I don't love, right? There's a lot of them. But one of the nicer things about getting older is you have the wisdom of time, right? You have the wisdom of experience. And that's what a lot of times I think is parents, especially they forget, which is your kids never done this before. They they don't know if they're gonna be okay. You know you're gonna be okay because you've faced these questions before. You've gotten through it, you know that you can always bounce back, you know you've been down and you figured it out. But when you're 25 and you're leaving a job that has defined you, and you don't know if you're ever gonna find something else. You don't know if you leave this relationship, if there's gonna be someone else around the corner. So that's the part that's really hard when you're young. You just don't, you can't really trust that things are gonna, you know, you're gonna figure things out because you haven't had time to trust. And that's one of the biggest things that I see is this this my clients really struggle with a lot of anxiety. And that anxiety is coming from this fear of, right, things aren't gonna work out for me, or I'm gonna make a mistake along the way, or or I'm gonna fail and everything's gonna fall apart. And the answer to that is always you have to trust. You have to trust that you will figure it out. And it's incredibly difficult if you have no uh background in it.
SPEAKER_04:So, so what's our role as parents when we know that our kids are feeling a lot of this, making these big decisions, and we're saying, Did you get a job? Are you dating anyone? You know, all of that. How can we temper that and yet still feel like we're uh being supportive? And, you know, there's lots of situations I can look back on, not in my direct family, where I saw parents of my parents' generation not being firm with their kids, enabling them through their whole lives, you know, that sort of thing. So we want to be supportive, but not enabling. What role can we play in lessening this anxiety without, you know, doing too much?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think it's so hard. And it's always, I always tell people so much of this is a case-by-case basis, really based on your kid, right? You know, based on your kid and your relationship with your kid and how they are and how they've been throughout their lives. But in terms of what you can do, I I think that a lot of it is doing less of the asking, you know, asking those kinds of questions, like, did you meet someone? Where, you know, what's going on with your career, and asking more open-ended questions about how, you know, how are you feeling? How are things going? I think also a lot of times there's a lot of value, and we can do it especially on text, there's a lot of value in just texting your kid and saying, you know, I see you doing these things, I'm so proud of you, or I see things are really difficult for you, just want to let you know I'm thinking about you. Because kids always want to, no matter who you are, what your background is. Like kids need their parents' approval, you know, no matter how what your relationship is with your your parents. And that is that's a very DNA genetic right piece because we need our parents for survival. We always have, and so we need their approval for survival. And so your kids are always looking for your, you know, your approval, your the stamp that I am doing okay, I am living up to what you what you want and what I want for myself. And so I think that you can cheer that part on versus getting into the nitty-gritty of work and love and right, because we get very stuck in this place of if I have uh a great job where I get paid a lot and I do these things, if I'm in a marriage and and I have kids or I have a home or whatever these other trappings are, like if I have all that, those things are gonna make me happy. And in actuality, they may or may not, right? Right? Like you want to celebrate their happiness. We've all learned that. Yeah, but they haven't. And so they're trying to your kids are trying to figure that out for themselves. And I think also just telling them, I mean, I think I think there's a lot of value. I think there's a lot of value in leaders being vulnerable, and I think there's a lot of value in parents being vulnerable as well, in terms of telling them, like, hey, this thing happened to me and this is what happened, and I fell down and I failed, and then, you know, I figured it out, I picked myself back up. Giving your kids less of the lectures of what you feel like they should be doing, and a bit more of this is who I, this is my life experience, this is who I am. And I have faith and belief that you too will figure it out. If you've got a kid where you're really, you know, you feel like I'm I'm in really enabling them and I'm solving all their problems for them, that's a point where I would say that's where you want to stop, stop solving their problems and simply, you know, when you get on the phone with them, ask them questions. Which is, you know, if they're calling you and saying, oh my God, I don't know what to do, you know, a pipe broke in my house, and I don't know, should I call a plumber? Do I call the landlord? What do I do? That's a moment where you want to say, Well, what, huh? What do you think you should do? Like, what makes the most sense for you right now? And coach them through solving the problem on their own. Because that's one thing that I see is I see a lot of parents wanting to, you know, wanting to do it differently maybe than how their relationship with their own parents and they want to have this close relationship with their kids. And then they realize, like, oh my God, I my kid's 25 and they're calling me all day, every day, asking me about everything. And so those are the moments in time where you want to start to be a bit more strategic and think, okay, I need to get them to solve their own problems. And so that requires you to just ask questions. Just questions, no statements.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, do you find that with this generation it tends more towards the calling too much as opposed to the calling too little?
SPEAKER_04:Not my kids, but go ahead, Tess. I was going to say, yeah, what about the ones who don't call enough? Yeah, I don't know. Do you have boys? No, I have a girl and a boy, and actually, my boy is he he would call more. But my daughter is very busy. I mean, she's a resident, but still, he's much more a talker.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, it's funny because usually gender-wise, what I've seen is that usually the the girls are the ones that are calling constantly and the boys not so much. Again, I think it's the relationship that you have with your parents that you have with them that really determines how much they're calling or not calling. But ask your question again. I'm sorry, I got what was your original question?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I think I just said you you answered it, I think, which is what about do you do you find that in this generation it's more they're they're wanting their parents too much as opposed to too little? And what do we do about the ones who want too little? I have one of each, so yeah, but it but it's different. It it involves different sorts of approaches either way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, listen, I I only have one child, so I don't know what it's like to parent multiple children, but I think, right? It's just my assumption is that you you parent each child the way in which they need it, right? And so it sounds like your daughter needs a little bit. Maybe it sounds like she's got a lot going on, she's got a lot on her plate. It's not that she's not thinking of you and doesn't care about you. It's just that, you know, when she finally has a half hour to herself, she wants to zone out and watch Netflix.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I was and I was that like that way as a young adult. I mean, I had to call once a week and I sort of dreaded that call. I was very close to my parents. I'm not sure why I dreaded it. I'm still trying to figure that out. I think it was sort of what you said before. You always want your parents' approval. You know, was I doing things that were good enough? Was I pleasing them? And when you're on the phone with them, you feel that more because you're attached, you know what I mean? You're you're thinking about it more. I think it's important the way you handle those calls, and we've discussed that a little bit. But let's get to some of these things. You say the number one concern that millennials have is money. And as I look at inflation and real estate prices and all that sort of thing, I don't know what I would be feeling as an emerging adult today. So what are they feeling? How can we be supportive? You know, that sort of thing. That's a pretty tough situation to be in right now.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it really is. And I I I will say I wrote that article before the pandemic, and the pandemic has changed things a little bit. They're even more worried, right? Or not? Yes and no. It's been interesting, and maybe this this might be more of a Gen Z thing because my I started off working with millennials. My millennials are getting older. So this new generation coming up, I have a lot of Gen Z clients as well. And so with the what changed with the pandemic was there were a lot of young people who had jobs that they weren't making a lot of money, and then they got fired and laid off. And then, you know, the government was giving out like a thousand dollars a week. And right, we were they were there was suddenly they were like, oh my God, I'm making more money now being unemployed than I ever did working all the time. And a lot of them, right, really saved that money. And then there was these the stipends that we were getting, right? And because they're not working, so they get the full benefit of the stipend, you know, they get the full amount. A lot of them moved back home with their parents and they didn't have as many expenses. And so what I'm seeing is this interesting thing of kids who the young ones who really pandemic was very difficult, but financially they walked away with a lot of money, and their parents are really anxious because they're not really doing anything now.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting. So that's a real catch. That's a real catch 22. I would be pretty frustrated if my kid wasn't working and just depending on that kind of thing. But I found some of those kids that got those whatever, because stipends and stuff spent them. I mean, my husband was playing golf one day, and the guy he was playing with was a tattoo artist. And the tattoo artist said he can tell every time a stimulus check went out, there were lines at the tattoo parlor.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that'll tell you something about the well, it was supposed to be a stimulus. I mean, that's exactly right. It did what it was supposed to do, but but I don't think I don't think tattoos were what they did.
SPEAKER_04:I think they were hoping there was a line at the grocery store, but um exactly. And I know how needed that was. I'm not getting into a political conversation. Parent to do now, the kids still living at home. I I'm just gonna say something. I just had an interview with these two young, they're actually comedians in Brooklyn. They have a podcast called OK Stupid. And we titled the episode Okay Stupid and What Other Things Your Your Kids Say About You. Um, but one of the things they said in the interview was that all their friends are on antidepressants. And yet they feel like they're making all the right choices in their lives. They're doing things really different from their parents. So I'm thinking, uh, and they talked a lot about their friends living at home and all that sort of thing. So I'm wrapping up a lot of things in one. But what's going on here?
SPEAKER_00:A couple different things. I mean, one is that, you know, the the relationship that people have, the younger generations, to mental health is very, very different, right? Okay. For the first time, and I mean, I think the pandemic, one of the things of the pandemic that I think has been a positive is I think we're finally talking about mental health. We're finally talking about the um, you know, that we've created a society in a world where technology is great, technology has helped us tremendously. And imagine the pandemic without technology, it would have been a mess, right? To keep it going. I couldn't have been able to keep my business going. Nobody would have. Yeah. And so it's really positive. But the flip side of it is, and what we forget is that the expectations that we have on young people in the workplace today is radically different. So, you know, my first job out of college, I worked 9 30 to 5 30. And when 5 30 hit, we lock the doors, we turn off the lights, we lock the doors, and we left. And my boss had no way of getting a hold of me unless she called me at home and I picked up. But what's happening now with millennials and now Gen Zers is that when technology hit, it was like a free-for-all. Like people were working non-stop, especially here in the San Francisco Bay Area where we have Silicon Valley. Almost everywhere. Yeah. And and so what was happening, and I saw this with my clients, I was like, God, there's no you yourself at age 25, 26, you have to figure out your own boundaries. Like there are no boundaries. The the blinds are really blurry. All you know, everything is really blurry for these young people. So what was happening is that the technology really overtook everything and made it really made this younger generation feel like they had to be, if they wanted to excel and succeed and be a good employee, to be constantly, constantly working. What I've seen is that I think a lot of young people, what's happened is is that with the pandemic and everything that's happened is that they're asking themselves these questions of like, what's my life all about? Like, do I really want to be tied down to my computer, you know, in my bedroom for the rest of my life? Is this what my life's gonna look like, you know, forever and ever? And then they started to ask themselves these questions. But before the pandemic, young people were much more willing to go see a therapist. Uh, millennials were primarily raised by baby boomers who were very accepting if their kid had an issue when they were young to take them to a therapist, right? So they were introduced to therapy very early. And I had a lot of clients that came to me that were like, yeah, I went to therapy in my teens, but then I stopped, but now I'm in my 20s and I'm gonna come back. So they're they're very accepting of that. And, you know, a part of it's it's not, we don't push meds on people the first thing that they come in. But if someone's really struggling and having a hard time, we recommend, and I do too, recommend, you know, medications. And so I think that the thing is is that people have been on these meds for a long, long time. They just never talked about them. That's now they talk about them.
SPEAKER_02:That's true.
SPEAKER_00:People have been in therapy for a long, long time, they just never talked about it as much as they're talking about it now. So it seems like, oh my God, everyone's on antidepressants and everyone's depressed, and everyone's this and everyone's that. It's like, no, no, no. People have been anxious for a long time. It's just these younger generations are willing to say, hey, I'm anxious, help me, point me in the right direction. And that's the real difference. But they've also shown that yes, all of this technology is making us anxious, that we are really struggling with our attention span because we can't focus on anything for more than a few minutes, right? If you you don't hook someone in six seconds, they're gone forever. You know, I record videos for YouTube, I gotta like make them shorter and shorter. I'm constantly doing things like Instagram. You know, you want to put up a reel? Like I'm supposed to solve your problems in less than six seconds.
SPEAKER_04:And now you got TikTok, which is sort of like, you know, bringing YouTube down to a second. Yes, yes. And people are scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. So it's hard. It's so what do you tell these kids? I'm feeling anxious just talking about this. I can't even imagine what it would be like. I mean, I'm so glad I'm older because if I was young and feeling a lot of, I mean, I I never closed the door at 5:30. I would work till 8:30 or 9 in my first job, but I knew at nine o'clock when I went home no one would call me and there was no computer at home. So I couldn't keep working, I couldn't keep writing. So even if it was not nine to five, you knew you had a break when you got home. Now you never have a break. So, what's the answer to this? And what do you tell these kids when it's causing so much anxiety and life questions? And how is the world gonna deal with it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I tell them that they need to set those boundaries for themselves. They need to figure out for themselves, like what is it, you know, how long do I want to work? And setting a boundary and setting a line for themselves. And when we set boundaries, we it's gonna feel a little uncomfortable. That's what happens a lot of times. People set these boundaries and then they start to feel uncomfortable. And then they're like, oh, no, no, that means the boundary is wrong. It's like, no, no. It just means that, you know, it's it's a hard boundary to set. So, you know, if I have clients who are constantly, constantly working, it's really figuring out okay, how many hours do you want to work? What feels reasonable? reasonable. Okay, this is the time. And I will sit there with them and help them plan that out. And then plan out like, okay, so if your boss texts you, what are you going to do? What do you do? Well, you you have a couple different I mean it depends on the boss, but you have a couple different options. I think one is I think going into the office and setting, talking to your boss about when you text me on the weekends, are you expecting me to respond? Because that's the biggest thing. My clients just have never even had a conversation with their boss about this particular issue. I said, you know, if you are emailing, finding out from them saying, hey, if you're emailing me on the weekends, if you're texting me, what's the expectation? Find out what is expected of you first. And then once you know, and most of the time what I found is they would go and talk to their bosses about it. And the boss would be like, oh no, I just was thinking about this and I just sent it to you. I didn't think of anything of it. So usually it works itself out and then they can then say well, you know, then they know they know they don't need to respond. They know they don't need to do anything about it. I also think that part of it too is really making a conscious choice not to check your work email after a certain time. Or if you're going to check your work email, you do it at this time and you get like if you get caught up in something you have 20 minutes to do it and then you're done. It has to be an emergency. So each person's very different about what they need. And then I think that if you have a situation where you have a boss who doesn't respect your boundaries and and is constantly pinging you and then it comes back to you to figure out like how much do I want this job? How important is this to me to do that? And then making that decision from there.
SPEAKER_04:Well you know you said something earlier that struck me which was you know they were feeling in order to in order to excel they had to do this. And I still think some of that exists. The person that gets back to the boss or is engaged over the weekend or at nine o'clock at night has an idea, you know, all that sort of thing, there's reward for that. And it's also hard as a worker not to feel that reward because that's where you get your I mean money is one thing but you also get strokes through affirmations and that you're doing a good job. When the when the boss says wow every time I text you you're right on it you feel I'm doing a good job. So you almost have to change that mindset as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And that's another thing I pre-pandemic I used to go into companies and talk to employees. And it was always really interesting because I would be usually there hired to talk about you know mental health in the workplace or how to de-stress and the irony was that it was it was always the workers it was never management would never come. And the thing was that as I was chatting with people, I knew that they were in that bind which is you know it's this thing where yes if you work work and work all the time and you make work your life then you're going to get rewarded. But at the same time the company's also talking out of the other side of their mouth saying but you need to take time off and here we're going to hire someone to come in and talk to you about stress. Right, right, right, right. Right. And and and they knew they knew they were in this bind and here I am telling them to like set boundaries and do all this stuff and they they know that. So I don't disagree with you. Yes, absolutely that there is that correlation. I think that that is going to I think it's going to be very interesting to see what happens with work in the next 20 years because I think that's going to change and really truly it starts with if there's any managers and bosses out there, it starts with you. You have the power if you're a CEO, if you're whatever you're running if you're a leader then you need to be more aware of this. And you need to recognize and understand that your company cannot operate on that. Because yes the people who work work all the time yes they're the ones getting the praise but careers are a marathon not a sprint. You will get burned out I've seen it time and time again. And companies have to realize that that if they if they want to create long lasting employees which is what is always cheaper and more effective in the end if you want to you keep your and retain your employees then it requires the leaders the management to change this way of thinking and this way of being and to start to change and modify for these younger generations. But the problem is is that when I say that to older generations they don't like that. No they don't at all. Because much like myself I trust me that was just that first job that I left at 530. Once I moved to Hollywood everything changed. Yeah you worked your bottom off yes my dad you know drilled into me first to be there last to leave yes and so that's the thing is is that that was for a long long time that was the the secret to success right which was you work really hard and you you know you can buy things but the problem now is is that it doesn't work like that anymore. Back in 1950 you the average American had a 90% chance of out earning their parents today you have about I think less than 50% chance. That's huge. So what's happening with millennials and Gen Zers is this the American dream has changed. Because in your generation and in my generation we were told if you work hard you go to college you find a career you first one in last one out if you do all of that you can have a home you know you can have women right we can have it all you can have a home you can have retirement you can have all of these things all of this will be given to you. The problem is is that you're not going to have those millennials are working to death and they can't afford homes yet generation zers don't even think about homes they can't even fathom that that is so beyond them. They're not thinking about unless their parents are helping them. Yeah I mean and and that's that is the the problem is is that all of those things that my generation your generation the things that we were pushing and pushing and pushing to show you like this is what you get with this American dream that has changed. And so yes I am sorry if you are a manager at a company and you were browbeaten by your bosses when you were younger and you had to work your way up and now you're sitting on the top and now you can't treat people poorly. You have to like you know what they always say is oh my God I have to cow town to these um you know snowflakes. Right. Right?
SPEAKER_04:And it's like talk you talk a lot about the reputation that these kids have and you really don't think they are who what they have the reputation of.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And I think that's that's the problem is is that the minute these older generations hear like hey maybe you should approach it from this place or be vulnerable or you know understand it or or change your behavior that mentality of but I work so hard to get to where I am shouldn't why should I change? They need to change. And what I think is really unique and special about millennials and Gen Zers is they are sort of these generations that are saying no we're not going to do that. Because not only are we not going to get a pension at the end of our jobs, not only are we unsure of all of these things, we have ways of making money now that were not possible before and we don't need you. That's true too. You know that's the thing it's funny because when I was in Hollywood and working constantly like the thing was the only way to work up was you had to be someone's assistant. And you had to be someone's assistant you had to put up with their crap and you had to put up with their behavior and how they treated you to get crumbs from them to teach you how to do this job that you eventually wanted to do. Right. But the thing is nowadays kids can just they just go on YouTube. I can just figure this out I can set up a small business I can do this I can do that. And and being an entrepreneur is such a big thing now with social media and all of that that there's so many young people that are like well I'm not going to put up with that. Like why should I? I'll just go and do my own thing.
SPEAKER_03:I mean I I have to say though that's that's a very small percentage of kids. I mean most kids are not going to be entrepreneurs most of us are going to have to be assistants in something to start out in well in some in some way Ellen but what she's saying and I see this a lot it's sort of this whole gig economy.
SPEAKER_04:They may not be intro entrepreneurs but they're putting together five or six different things that are making them the same salary that they were making. Now someone remember when we interviewed those two young adults from Adultish and we were talked about that a little bit they said yes that's true but is it what was the word they use it will it stay? You know, is it what was the word they used? Do you remember Ellen they said um you know it might just be short-lived.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah I mean yes and that's true but I think it sort of sells something I mean eventually people do have to me you know plant tomatoes and have stores and things like that. Like there's it's sort of I I don't know I think it feeds their that sense of anxiety that oh I'm going to be an entrepreneur and if I'm not then I'm a failure at that too. I mean I think there are some kids who will be successful at that but the vast majority are still going to have to take those jobs that, you know, I mean they're not everybody can be an entrepreneur I agree.
SPEAKER_04:And I and then I also worry I mean I have a son who's an entrepreneur and I worry about his 401 insurance disability insurance. They forget about all that stuff.
SPEAKER_00:I I listen Ellen I agree with you that not everyone can be an entrepreneur. But the main thing is is that I just remember when I was younger in my 20s I did not question any anything of what I shon that and part of why I didn't question was there were no other you know the the path was so clear right and and what happened with the internet and and the way information is seen because young people don't see information the same way that I know I see information because once upon a time you had to work to get information. You had to work to get knowledge and experience from somebody. And the world that we live in today is anyone become become an expert in something without really ever having to work for it or find it or find that knowledge. Right? You can it's everything is so readily available to people that information has changed and considerably. And so that's one of the things that I see is when millennials and Gen Zers they come into the workplace you know they're not they're not looking at their bosses as that same thing of oh I'm going to get information from this person. I want to take these crumbs from you. You know they're looking there because they have information they're looking for other things they're looking for a relationship and mentorship much more than I think I I ever did. And so so much has changed in that in that way. And I don't know I I it will be interesting to see what happens with Gen Zers, like what they end up doing, right? Because we have this great resignation and I see this constantly and the big the big thing is a lot of my clients they don't like service service jobs. Any kind of waitressing or bartending or any of that they're hard to fill these days. And that is an area that a lot of young people are sort of willing to make other sacrifices to not have to take those kinds of jobs.
SPEAKER_03:Somebody's got to take those jobs who's going to take them do you think I don't know I mean someone will. When you answer that yeah when you answer that I mean it I mean that it's interesting though but it because it's like are we all just gonna not have restaurants anymore? Like is that sort of it's not just restaurants. I mean my feeling is that I mean we should honor those professions as opposed to you know look at them with with sort of disdain. But that I think is a generational difference that we're talking about. Right.
SPEAKER_04:We we've been talking about money a lot and we don't have a whole lot more time. So I'd really like to hear from you Tess what other things do you think are in the top of mind of the struggles with young adults? I mean I listed a few things there seems to be a lot of mother-daughter conflict unresolved childhood conflicts anything that comes up in your practice where you see these are things that you could share with our listeners that they should pay attention to boundaries is another big one. Do they come very much talking about my mom's driving me crazy or my dad's driving me crazy or how do I separate? What are some of the top things you hear?
SPEAKER_00:It is a lot of the the relationship with the parents because it used to be that right that it was thought of as the teenage years were the years where you individuate and you become your person and who you are and that's not true. Like it is young adulthood, emerging adulthood when you really start to understand yourself and understand your opinions. And so what a lot of is it's a lot of parsing out for young people of is this what I believe or is this what my parents believe and told me I should believe right and that's a big thing because especially when it comes around a lot of parents said to their kids like become an accountant become a lawyer become this become that you'll always have a job it's a good it's a good living you need to work hard and a lot of people went out and did that they became lawyers they you know they became accountants and then they're four or five years into the job and they hate it. You know they're really miserable. So a lot of it is trying to understand for themselves with their parents like how do I forge my own path that is different than what I was taught and what I was told how do I how do I do that? But there's there's that part about it and it's also and then how do I make how do I declare and say I want to do this and not disappoint my parents or not freak out my parents because you're younger and you you're an adult now and you can see things a lot clearer a lot of times young people are they're able to sort of look back at their parents whether their parents got divorced or you know mom or dad had an affair or they had a step parent that they didn't like, right? You can go back and as an adult now and look at your childhood and look at those things and you're trying to you know trying to understand like your parents and why they did what they did and understand your relationship. So there is that piece of it of kids you know wanting answers from their parents of like why did you get divorced and why are why you know why did you move or why did you leave or any of these things. So it's it's a lot of it's a lot of kind of trying to understand yourself through your parents.
SPEAKER_04:That makes so much sense and I think what it opens up to me is I think for our listeners being willing to talk about those things. I mean my daughter said something to me recently I mean you know she's a fourth year resident she's working her buns off and she says you know so and so just left early the other day and said she was worn out. And she said, you know, mom I wish I could do that but you just drilled into me not to quit you know and I felt so bad. I mean I didn't feel bad and I understood what I drilled into her but I was glad she was having those thoughts and thinking for herself in that way. So I think being able to talk about it is probably important.
SPEAKER_00:Do you agree? Oh yeah absolutely and I think the way you handled it was very good because I think sometimes there's this want of this want to be defensive of yes you shouldn't quit. Right. You know I taught you that and that's great. And I too listen I I have parents who um very much taught myself and my sister you know work you know work hard and you know excel and and all of that and I too have those feelings where it's like God I wish you told me to take a vacation more. Right.
SPEAKER_04:Well you know funny she says to me when I started ballet you wouldn't let me quit when and I had no thoughts that I was like that. I thought she enjoyed everything she was doing.
SPEAKER_03:You know so I'm gonna just intercede here that you know this is not necessarily shameful to not be able to say you know what I'm gonna push through this. I mean that's no no no you're right Ellen you're right you're right you're right instead of walks around the block. I mean there there's a balance in here and I think we tend to go one direction or the other. You're absolutely right um and it it that's also like Katie shouldn't feel bad because she's not that other person. That other person is a separate person with different goals different values.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right you're right and so but you know Ellen I was glad she was thinking about it and making decisions for herself. She'll never be a quitter that's not her personality but I'm glad she's thinking about herself.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that what I was going to say was your reaction to her was it doesn't sound like you got defensive and tried to you know put your stand or sort of apologize. I think it's important to sort of just take it in.
SPEAKER_03:Well I did apologize a little bit no no no she liked ballet she liked it I didn't tell you this with a 100% certainty.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't just kidding and if you hadn't I mean that's the other side of the coin is that you you know had you allowed her to quit a lot of things you'd have a different you know a different you're right there's a balance there's absolutely you're right but I'm sure those are the exact kind of things they talk to Tess about that's my guess yeah yeah yeah being a parent myself and I'll always say I always say this to my clients or or to whomever it's like the parents aren't the enemy when I'm in the room with them their parents are not their enemy I'm a mother I know what it's like and you there is no way you get through parenting unscathed no way it is so hard so so hard. And so I think the best thing that you can do for your kids is to be able to write that was that was your daughter's experience. Her experience in her mind was I wanted to quit ballet and mom didn't so it's not about you defending that experience or apologizing for it or anything of just saying you know I hear you you know I I see you I hear you and and I you know because in the end I think that kids just want to be seen by their parents for who they are and accepted for who they are right. That's the core of it.
SPEAKER_04:We hear that all the time from the young adults we interview whatever the situation they always hear their parents' voice in their minds. Yeah. Okay we've been going on really long here and we've got to wrap up but I promised I would ask this one listener question Tess and it's a little bit in regards to money. So I'm gonna ask this question and then we're gonna ask you to give us our few takeaways for our listenership. Unless Ellen do you have anything else before I do this no because I love this question.
SPEAKER_03:I'm glad you're getting to it because I actually know a few people are having trouble getting their kids out of the house.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah so the listener question was they have a young adult daughter so she and her husband have helping their young adult daughter in the last few years after college to help her get her feet on the ground. And now she's moved in with her boyfriend. And the parents feel that their support should stop but don't know how to approach it with their adult child. What should their steps be or how would you address this?
SPEAKER_00:Well I think first the parents have to get on the same page about what they feel comfortable doing. Like you know if they're both at on the same page of we really need to we don't want to support her any longer then what I would do is I would go to her and I would put together a plan. You know you don't want to spring it on them like we're cutting you off. You know see but you you want to be able to go to her and say hey you know we've been supporting you we're we feel like we've done enough we can't do this anymore however you want to phrase it and just say okay so we're gonna put together a plan for the next six months you know and we can do it in a couple different ways we can slowly stop 10 by 10% each month or every you know whatever it is we can slowly give you less and less money or I we can or we can say you know at the end of the six months you we're giving you six months warning we're gonna stop supporting you at all. I would go and I would just say this is the plan. This is what we're doing. And you know if your kid comes back at you and being like oh my God I can't I can't I can't put it back on them and say okay you need to tell us exactly where you're where if if you want our financial support you need to tell us what you need specifically and where it's gonna go. We're not gonna just blanket give you money because I have a lot of I hear this all the time like the kids get on the cell phone family plan, right? And the parents just keep paying for it or sometimes they'll pay for insurance or health insurance because they're worried about it. That's why I'm saying you and your partner have to kind of get on the same page of listen, we want to cut her off but we're worried about the health insurance. So let's just keep paying that. We'll tell her this right the two of you want to make sure that you know what you want and then just go and tell them like this is what's going to happen. And if you if something needs to be different, you need to come back to me and tell them us what is the plan and what is your plan for eventually becoming financially free.
SPEAKER_04:You know like you can't we can't we're not gonna pay this bill in perpetuity right you know I love the way you said that you know because I had a situation um and it was again the generation before mine where the parents basically supported their young adult child through his marriage with the kids never asking where that money was going to and I thought my gosh the parents are like you know giving them everything. So I love the idea of saying you know if you continue to need it let us know where it's going.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah yeah that's a good that's a good phrase.
SPEAKER_04:Good. So anyway I really appreciate that. Now Tess before we end we always ask for a few takeaways you're talking to our adult parents what are the two or three things that you really want our audience to remember and think about so if you have a child who is calling you constantly wanting you to solve every single problem and you don't know how to stop then it's time for you to set a boundary.
SPEAKER_00:And the easiest way of doing that is stop solving their problems and when you get on the phone or text you only ask questions. You always put things back on them. How do you think you should do that? What do you think you should say? Number two is be aware that the world is very very different now and that your kids are going through something that is very different. Even if it feels like hey it's the same stuff I went through it is all new to them. It is all new to them. They don't know yet so when someone doesn't know what do you do do you shame them? No you recognize and understand it and help guide them through and that finally the core thing is your kid your children just want you to love them and accept them for who they are. So always when you walk into any difficult conversation or get on the phone with them or anything just keep that in mind. Like my child wants me to love them and recognize them for who they are today. And it may not be what you wanted or what you planned but that's being a parent. Yeah that's such such an important thing to remember that's the hard part too about being a parent.
SPEAKER_04:Tess this has been wonderful I think what you're doing and the audience that you've gravitated to is wonderful. You'll help so many people and I'm glad you had a terrible time in LA so thank you so so much for joining us today. Oh absolutely thank you for having me so that's a wrap thanks Tess so much for your insight into our young adult children and some of the struggles that they face that we might not quite understand. I think we all know that every generation has their own hurdles and as Tess said in the end it's really about loving our kids for who they are. That really seems like just the definition of parenting. After the interview I thought about my father who loved his job so much he was able to involve all of us in his job and kind of became a family affair. In the end I'm glad he drove into me the value of hard work I do believe it's still very important. Anyway learn more about Tess and her practice by visiting testbringhamcoaching.com at Test T-S Brigham R-I-G-H-A-M-Coaching dot com she also offers a number of books like a radically practical guide to life in your twenties and some online courses to help young adults find their true selves, set goals and make some of those important life decisions. Go to her website and you'll find a link to her courses and her books. It might be something you'll want to share with your young adult children. Thanks again to Connie Fisher, our audio engineer and to you all of our listeners. Check out our social media sites and you'll find the link to buy our new bite your tongue mug let's spread the word. And finally remember sometimes you just have to bite your tongue
